Veterans Substance (alcohol) Group suggestions?

[doug_porsche]

Looking for suggestions.
My bil missed the family thanksgiving dinner because he was being processed for a DUI.
His history.
Vietnam Vet
Worked for the State Department of Wildlife until retirement
Married for 35+ years to the same (amazing) lady.
Great father of two.
Done an impressive amount volunteer work
Until this weekend, an amazing role model.
Seems after retirement he found himself with too much free time.
Seems he has found that alcohol was a way to fill up the time.
Been getting worse, not better, culminating in a DUI this weekend.

I have lived a very lucky life and have no experience in this area.

Does anyone have a recommendation on support groups/AAish type organization, preferably specializing working with military veterans?
Going to contact the VA hospital, but just looking for suggestions.
Thanks in advance.

[wdfifteen]

My son is a researcher with the NIAA.
https://www.rethinkingdrinking.niaaa.nih.gov/

Rethinking Drinking is one of the many programs my son has helped with. His specialty is addiction research. He also works with several drug therapies. Unfortunately there is no panacea, what works for one person can be useless for another. The trick is to find what helps the individual. For some, accepting the idea that every drink not taken is a victory, but taking a drink is not a defeat. It is very, very complicated.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

My son is a researcher with the NIAA.
https://www.rethinkingdrinking.niaaa.nih.gov/

Rethinking Drinking is one of the many programs my son has helped with. His specialty is addiction research. He also works with several drug therapies. Unfortunately there is no panacea, what works for one person can be useless for another. The trick is to find what helps the individual. For some, accepting the idea that every drink not taken is a victory, but taking a drink is not a defeat. It is very, very complicated.

All true.

Get your BIL involved in the process without judgement or rancor (you seem to have neither of those traits, but he will be embarrassed so just a reminder) because as WD wrote, there is no handy paradigm to finding what works.

I wish you the best and hope your BIL finds what he is looking for. I see this scenario quite a bit since I retired from active duty, and it is one of the reasons I will always work. I'd be right there with him if I didn't.

[drcoastline]

Sage advice from Seahawk as usual.

A DUI isn't the end of the world and doesn't make him any less of a role model. The fact is DUI laws are set up to catch people to generate income for the state, not to stop people from drinking and driving. From what you wrote about your BIL, he sounds like a good guy. Make sure he knows it and this should not define him. A DUI does not make him an alcoholic. From the man you described this just may be a self starter for him and he will find something else to fill his time.

[Jeff Higgins]

I would make myself familiar with the circumstances of his DUI before arriving at any conclusions. As a disclaimer, let me say I have never had a DUI, nor has anyone in my family. I really don't have a dog in this fight, but here I go anyway - minor rant concerning the current state of affairs concerning DUI's.

It strikes me that this has become more than just a bit of a racket. An opportunistic, moral high ground and therefor unassailable avenue through which to fleece honest, moral, hardworking men and women. I've read many commentaries by folks who claim to be in the know, on the inside of this very profitable "business". I'm not sure how much money the average DUI pumps into the coffers of both the charging authority and the local bar association, but it is quite significant.

I'm especially suspicious of any DUI charged during one of these infamous holiday "emphasis patrols" or, worse yet, unconstitutional DUI checkpoints. With the timing of your BIL's arrest, it appears he may have fallen victim to one of these.

That said, you know him better than we do. You do mention you have observed his drinking getting worse. As such, maybe this DUI comes as no surprise, and you can use it as a springboard towards the help you have already observed he might need.

All of that said, I would like to wish you luck and your BIL well. Although I have been what I fully appreciate to be uncommonly blessed in this regard, I have seen far too many friends' and coworkers' families absolutely torn apart by alcohol. Best wishes for you guys.

[Jims5543]

Saw an interesting quote on The Chive:

Never drink and drive, someone texting and driving could hit you and it will be your fault.

I have a keychain breathalyzer. It was a real eye opener. Pretty much, EVERY time I go out to dinner I will be a potential DUI. 2 decent IPA's will put me over the limit. 0.08 is the limit here, per my breathalyzer I hit 0.10 to 0.12.

I agree with others here, the laws are set up to generate money.



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[doug_porsche]

Thanks for the advice so far.

Giving a little more information.
Unfortunately this was not a DUI checkpoint.
It was deserved DUI (passed out in the car, parked in front of the house, with the keys in the ignition). A very uncharacteristically poor decision.

I believe 100% this is an unfortunate situation that slowly just sort of spun out of control, and with the correct attention now, does not/will not define him.

We will address this now, as a family, and it can be that 2 pound monkey, not a 300 pound gorilla, at future family gatherings.

[John Rogers]

Well I hate like hell to give advice but I'll try. I was in the old Navy and had been drinking since I was 16 and spending time on the beach at Ocean City MD and finally after loosing 3 days somewhere I had a disc slip in my lower back and didn't realize it at the time but since I was put in bed, in traction I didn't drink for 3 weeks! During that time I looked at myself and did not like what I saw at all! That was in 1978 and haven't drunk anything since. At that time the Navy had little to no help for drinking problems so I was pretty much on my own. I found that I had to get into a hobby or something with NO drinking so I started bicycle riding and shortly afterward started racing. I never got a DUI or DWI or whatever they might be called but several of my shipmates did and the judge really leaned on them and made them go to meetings, get signed off and report back as what the hell they were doing. A couple relapsed and it was much rougher second time around as they did not take it serious.

So my advice is to have the judge lay down the law, get a hobby, part time job (I teach evening classes) or something to stay sober and busy. Don't keep any liqueur in the house and don't hang out at any bars or clubs, even if old friends do. Watching a buddy drink down a cold draft will make the eyes water and the brain get a crazy!!!! Find a AA meeting to go to if possible at least they usually have free donuts and coffee and someone to talk to about their issues whatever they might be.
Good luck!

[jhynesrockmtn]

I grew up with two alcoholic parents. AA saved my Dad's life. He went through multiple inpatient reatment programs. Struggled for years. Totaled two cars while drunk and thankfully didn't hurt or kill anyone else. He didn't get, and more importantly stay, sober until he committed to AA. Over the years he mentored many others in the program. May not be everyone's cup of tea but it sure was his.

[Zeke]

He needs to get an attorney. Passed out in a car with the keys is not a slam dunk.

AFA the drinking, yeah, passed out is a bit over the top. He needs to get help.

[DanielDudley]

Most people have a hard time reeling it in once they cross a certain line.

While this DUI may not be a slam dunk, it should be taken as a wake up call. It only goes downhill from here.

[flyenby]

Some states have a Veterans’s court....calif does. It is a more lenient court

[Arizona_928]

The VA has substance abuse programs. Might be an avenue to look into.

[daepp]

AA.
Commit to 90 meetings in 90 days.
By then he'll have the solution, or at least know it's not for him.

[speeder]

I have two close friends who are vets and sober in AA, all I can say is that he doesn't need any special veterans group to try out recovery. Back in the old days when AA started, everyone was a veteran, WW1. Then for many years, they were all WW2 or Korea. Having been in Viet Nam 50 years ago isn't his problem, booze is.

This is not to take away from his life experience but he will likely find plenty of combat vets in AA. One of my friends, (really more like a big brother to me), was an 18 y.o. Marine in VN in '69, he saw plenty of action. The war actually did contribute to his drinking and drugging when he got home but that was 45 years ago. His problems and solutions now don't have much to do w VN. FWIW, he has an amazing sober life today and I just had lunch w him in Minneapolis a couple weeks ago. He is about to retire from a great job at the University of MN. and his life is in full swing, great family and friends, has fun all the time, etc... He was NOT having fun the year before he got sober and clean back in 1989, I can tell you that.

The other buddy is a young guy, also a Marine but an Iraq vet. When he was in the military, he was beset by personal demons and wanted to die so bad that he volunteered and went back to Iraq and Afghanistan something like 4 times. He would max out his credit cards and just dive back into the battle, hoping to get killed but it never happened and he would come back to the same problems he had before he left. I love that guy, he is seriously the best. A sensitive, artistic soul who is tough but the antithesis of a macho, Rambo character. He was actually a raver before he enlisted, one of those guys in a jumpsuit at the all-night party w a glow stick on ecstasy.

Anyway, he's sober now and while life is never perfect, it's pretty darn good for him and if not sober, he would be one of those sad statistics of guys w PTSD.

I agree w others that a DUI doesn't make you an alcoholic, especially not w .08 these days. You could feel perfectly fine and get a DUI. But if he has a booze problem, there is a solution.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by speeder

....

I agree w others that a DUI doesn't make you an alcoholic, especially not w .08 these days. You could feel perfectly fine and get a DUI. But if he has a booze problem, there is a solution.

Since hs, college, career....work hard, play (drink) hard...I drank a lot of beer and saw a lot of 2am encores...usually had a ride home, but no telling how many times I was "legally DUI" on the drive IN to work...but I digress.. The only incident I ever had...choosing to pull over and sleep one Halloween...band was AWESOME btw.

6:30 am...asleep, well off the side of the road in my Supra Turbo...I was guilty...but never again.... paid my due$.

I neither work hard nor play hard anymore..haven't since leaving the corporate world a decade ago...healthier & happier too.

He's had his "wake up call"... it's on him now....help him find a path...if he asks or needs a friend imo. Lots of great advice on this thread....best wishes to you and him.

Send him this thread....seriously....mebbe?

[drcoastline]

This may get a little long, and something I don't typically share, because "people" do judge and regardless of how you deal with the entire rest of your life they will want to define you by this. What I am about to say doesn't mean your BIL doesn't have a problem and need attention. But again, based on your post this may just be an issue that needed a wake up call. I will start here. In spite of being careful and trying to obey the law this is a subject I have some experience with.

Originally Posted by doug_porsche

Thanks for the advice so far.

Giving a little more information.
Unfortunately this was not a DUI checkpoint.
It was deserved DUI (passed out in the car, parked in front of the house, with the keys in the ignition). A very uncharacteristically poor decision.

I believe 100% this is an unfortunate situation that slowly just sort of spun out of control, and with the correct attention now, does not/will not define him.

We will address this now, as a family, and it can be that 2 pound monkey, not a 300 pound gorilla, at future family gatherings.

DUI- Driving Under the Influence
DWI- Driving While Intoxicated.
OWI/OUI- Operating While Intoxicated or Operating Under the Influence.

What you described doesn't convict your BIL of DUI or DWI. Bare in mind this is NJ I am speaking of not CO, but most of the laws across the country are similar. In NJ you can be convicted if the key is in the "ON" position or if the engine is running, that is "Operating" the vehicle.

So in 1992 (I was 27) I received a Operating under the influence. Long story short St. Patrick's day. I am with a group of friends we have my car an one friend is our DD. We go out and celebrate. Somewhere around 1:30AM I say to the DD I have had enough I'll waiting in the car. I leave the bar walk across the street get in the passenger side of the car, start the car and turn on the heat. I put my head back and close my eyes. Some time later five minutes or a half hour I don't know. There is a knock on the window. It's a police officer. He asks have I been drinking? I said yes. He then asks, is there anyone else in the car with you? I say no. He then asks who started the car? I say I did. I couldn't find an attorney that would "defend" me so I represented my self pro-se. I was found guilty of Operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated. Had I answered I don't know who started the car. There is no way I could have been found guilty.

When I answered that I started the car I convicted myself. So unless your BIL admitted to driving to that spot himself there is no proof he did anything other than fall asleep in the car while intoxicated. Assuming the car was not running or the key in the on position. The moral of the story is I wasn't a threat to anyone and either was your BIL at the time. However, my drivers abstract shows the exact same conviction as someone driving on a busy free way at twice the legal limit.

Now the hard part.

I was pulled over for a second time in 2017. I went to get Chinese food. As I was walking up to the restaurant I guy I have known most of my life was walking past with his girlfriend heading to a little spot across from the restaurant. He asked If I would have a beer with him. I spent a little over an hour and had four 12oz. miller lite bottles. The fourth was unfinished. I got my Chinese food about fifteen minutes and headed home. A few blocks later I was pulled over. I was asked if I would do a filed test to which I agreed, but declined to do any walking tests as I was wearing flip flops. For those that don't know you can not refuse a breathalyzer but you do not need to consent to a filed sobriety test. I consented to the ABC test, Count backward and the Horizontal Gaze Mystagmus. For the record the officer that pulled me over was a class II summer cop with an authority attitude. He had been on the job for sixty days and hadn't received any DUI training. So I said my ABC's, counted backward and then he tries to perform the HGM. He waves his pen in front of my face, twirls it above my head, moves it to the left and then the right. I then tell him he is not doing the test correctly. You're supposed to go to the sides to see if my eyes twitch. He responded with "OH yeah? I think you are intoxicated you're under arrest." He took me to the PD where I sat and waited. About an hour later I was taken into the booking room where they then do a twenty minute visual evaluation. This is to ensure you don't ingest anything that could cause an improper reading. So at nearly two hours after I was stopped I blew a .13. There are more details which I would be happy to share but it would be a lot of typing. The police report, dash cam video, chest video of two officer, etc. In short I plead to a second DUI at my attorney's advice.

An important detail (In NJ anyway) is most states have a time frame that a DUI need be performed. If out side of that time frame the breath test can either be thrown out or time must be subtracted to come up with a reading for the time of the stop. New Jersey does not have that condition in place. It states "a reasonable amount of time" and no definition for what is a "reasonable" amount of time. It is completely open to the judges discretion. What you may not know is the human body absorbed alcohol at a faster rate than it eliminates it. So in my case my body absorbed alcohol for nearly two hours before I was given the test.

As part of my sentence I was required to under go an in depth alcohol evacuation as is required for all second offenders to see if "a bigger problem exists". A mental evaluation, questioning regarding my home life, work, sexual orientation, etc. I was required to attend sixteen weeks of group meetings one day per week at 8am in the morning and consent to a toxicology test each week. The program was called "relapse prevention". I was also required to attend private counseling every other week to see how I was progressing. When I asked he mental evaluator, group counselor and private counselor if I had a bigger problem and why I was in "relapse prevention" they all said you don't belong here, but we received funding for sixteen weeks of treatment.

My point Doug, is he may or may not have a "bigger" issue. But don't automatically convict him. You are going to stigmatize this man. I for one will take exception to your statement "it was deserved". Unless there is additional information that proves he was a danger what does he deserve? What was his BAC? How long was he asleep in the car? Did he actually drive anywhere? Step lightly and give him the benefit of the doubt. If he has a problem help him. The police aren't your friend. They are not Andy Griffith and are not always right. They're job is to arrest people.

Maybe your BIL is bored and needs a hobby or a part time job to take up some idle time. What is the saying"

"Nothing good comes from boredom. It's said that idle hands are the devil's workshop, an old saying dating at least as far back as Chaucer in the twelfth century who called idle hands the devil's tools. : "Friends, the idle brain is the devil's playground."....

So that's my story and my .02

[red-beard]

I cannot help you with the treatment options. But I have advice from living with an alcoholic for 7 years. Ex-Mrs. Beard has a serious drinking problem. I haven't seen here since about 2000, but I expect she still has the problem.

Remember, the alcoholic has to want to change, or it won't work. May not work anyway. Bit it won't work if they are not committed.

[doug_porsche]

Thanks for the input people.

Yes there is information I have withheld. The DUI is just a the last brick in the wall.
From what the family says, it is a boredom problem.
There is an intervention today, I just don't like pointing out issues with out having possible solutions.

Thanks all

[speeder]

It's not a "boredom problem." Best of luck to him and his family.