Dow Surges 400 Points

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by cabmando

No, spending increased the national debt. With or without the tax cuts, the spending was higher than the revenue. That national debt would have gone up regardless of the tax cuts. And revenue is higher after the tax cuts than before so technically the tax cuts didn't increase the debt, spending did.
Anyone who wants to get serious about spending cuts and then creating a larger taxpayer base, meaning getting more people paying federal income tax, has my ear. But everyone wants higher taxes on someone else. Screw that! I pay my share and that of at several others who don't currently pay federal income tax. We aren't going to balance any budgets or pay down any debt by creating fewer taxpayers.

Expanding the number of tax payers must be a priority.

Everyone should have income tax skin in the game

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Every regulation? Jesus Christ that is so ******* stupid I can't believe it. No, not every regulation. Some regulations impact business and the economy negatively and some regulations impact business and the economy positively.

I swear, when someone swipes at your face and shows you their thumb in between their fingers, you reach up to check your nose.

Here's what I want to see:
Regulation
Date signed into law
Date repealed
Negative impact
Positive impact

Wanna bet?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Toss it back in your lap.

What is the current best sweet spot for tax rates.

Give me the date of the specific cut. Give me the specific amount the tax cut cost in revenue.

Hell, we all know my questions are foolish to ask since there are far too many variables to give an accurate answer.

I too am concerned about debt moving forward. I also doubt that the lower rates will help the situation. Though they might. I do know I would support higher payroll tax rates (along with a higher age limit) so we can get SS back in the black..If our leadership can't get SS under control (limited action items available) I have doubts that either party can actually lead us out of the mess.

For a proper discussion of a fix, targeting tax cuts is the most important aspect I believe. One immediate issue is should taxes be used to shape culture and society. There are good points to both sides, government shouldn't pick winners and losers to government should level the playing field or at least call and penalize fouls. It's a terribly interesting discussion I think. As a small business owner who has always been anti-establishment, I have a unique perspective I think. One such is "should greed be regulated?"

Neither party can get us out of this mess. We will continue to jump from bubble to bubble for the next 50 years at least with no sound policy from either party.

This is one reason why I was initially happy with Trump winning, the mantra was run the government like a business. Unfortunately the US is being run like a reality TV show of a Waffle House at 2AM. Who wouldn't want to watch that?

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Expanding the number of tax payers must be a priority.

Everyone should have income tax skin in the game

Which as much as I like the tax cut I got is one thing I really don't like about the latest round of "tax reform". Expanded eligibility for tax credits and lower statutory rates along with a higher standard deduction will create less taxpayers ultimately.
We should be looking for ways to increase the number of taxpayers. Wages haven't risen significantly enough to rely on them to increase the number of taxpayers.

Shaun,
You can't regulate greed because the desire for more is in everyone. You can no more regulate greed than you can envy. Envy is what makes one person consider another "greedy"

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Yorkie

I don't think anyone would would argue that there is not an economic cost to business regulation but the idea of regulation is to create a tangential benefit to society. The auto industry *****ed and moaned about safety regulations but countless people have been spared death and injury from the government forcing the manufacturers to make their vehicles safer. The economic benefit to those laws were less people in hospital, off work, etc. Having had one of my kids in a serious car accident I am grateful that her car was forced to be safe. He driving decision that day is another matter...

Though it is getting much better, China was/is a great example of an unregulated industrial nation. Air quality is awful. Industrial injuries are commonplace. Dangerous products abound. Food quality frightening. When I started working in Asia in the 90s I left I was in a Dickens novel.

With everything there is a balance and the over regulation of an industry can be a death warrant (witness the private plane industry) but under regulation can be dangerous not just to your stock portfolio but your health.

And the price of A car went from $2500 to $40,000
And Detroit went into the dumps and turned into an apocalyptic unemployment war zone.
All because the gubmint stuck it's nose where it did not belong.

Having the gubmint tell the auto makers what they could build and not build is illegal. It is unconstitutional.
It is WRONG!

It is up to the PEOPLE to decide what they want to buy. It should be up to the consumer to dictate if they want to pay more for air bags or crash ratings.
The auto makers should make what the PEOPLE want, not what the gubmint tells them they can make.
That is what makes us stronger, makes us better, and what USED to make the US auto makers world leaders.

But some people can't handle making their own decisions for them. They need a nanny to decide for them. They like being told what they can do, and better yet like EVERYONE ELSE being told what they can do.
Because after all it is up to them, right?

Worse than that, some people are so friggin delusional they think everyone else should be told what they can and can't do. That everyone else should be told what they can do and can't do, either by the "know-it-alls" or the gubmint. Personal freedom and decisions must be eliminated!!!!!!

What made this country great was the emphasis on personal freedom and responsibility. PEOPLE deciding for themselves what path they will take, and their success or failure depended on their decisions and actions.

But the people who made the bad decisions and bad actions said HEY THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!
Why should someone else have more just because they were more responsible?
We can't have that, we need to gubmint to step in and fix it!!!


[/RANT]

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Expanding the number of tax payers must be a priority.

Everyone should have income tax skin in the game

Agreed.
Suppose a guy has .. .say ... $71,406.40 worth of skin in the game (YTD withholding).
I'd like to think that would be his share and then some.
Yet others who pay a tiny fraction of that say not fair, he got a bigger tax cut! Bah.

If it were up to me (and you are glad it is not) a person's vote would be reflective of how much "skin he has in the game".

Why do we let people who don't pay into the pot, get to help decide how much of it they get?

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by cabmando

And revenue is higher after the tax cuts than before so

citation needed

[tabs]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

People who let their EMOTIONS make all their decisions for them should not be investing in the stock market.

It is all based upon perception and the emotion there in.

The day after T was elected Equities started to rise...It was all based upon the perception that the WH would now be business friendly and the economy would get better. Nothing tangible had been done to effect Equities nor the economy the day after the election.

In that both Shaun and Sammy are wrong.

It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Sooner or later]

Hell of a lot more than just perception and emotions

S&P 500 earnings per ahare.

Q5 2015 18.70
June 2018 34.05

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by widebody911

citation needed

Have to correct. Wrong tables.
Check Table IV at the bottom of the page on each link.

Correct links
https://www.fms.treas.gov/fmsweb/viewDTSFiles?dir=a&fname=18092800.txt
https://www.fms.treas.gov/fmsweb/viewDTSFiles?dir=a&fname=17092900.txt

[sammyg2]

Market was flat today, maybe it's stabilized

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Market was flat today, maybe it's stabilized

Maybe it was closed for mourning POTUS Bush ?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

Maybe it was closed for mourning POTUS Bush ?

Sammy ain't that slow...sometimes I think he is too though . The stablization is about to cease in 3 hrs....will commence at 4:30 EST...

Y'all can blame who ya want too ...it's Bush's fault

[sammyg2]

Down 471 so far this morning. I figure that must have something to do with Jiminy Carter.
Who BTW looked pretty spry for his age at the funeral, Roselyn too.
Must be something in the peanuts keeping them young.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

it's not something in the peanuts, it's building houses for Habit for Humanity that keeps them young.

Jimmy & Rosalynn Carter Work Project

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Down 691 based on this interesting tactic

Huawei exec's arrest opens a new front in the US-China trade war

[tabs]

The wealth effect is going away. Which will cause main street to contract.

I fear that next year is really going to be bad..and the begining of the longer term slide.

The FED will have to start to accommodate economy at first by holding rates steady and then lowering them. If they can, if they don't it means something bigger and more ominious about USD and Treasury equilibrium is going on.

[tabs]

The pillar of institutional solvency has been Equities.Take that away and...

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Market has been artificially up for a few years now. More buyers than sellers. I think it's the Boomers. Be glad the average Joe working on an assembly line isn't in the stock market. First, they would further pump it up, second, they will be crushed and you will have to pay for them for the rest of your life.

Remember the Panic of 1873? That would be a walk in the park compared to what will happen today.

[Sooner or later]

The average Joe on the assembly line is in the market. Most will have a 401k.

Aver 50 million 401k accounts are active.

You are far off base on that statement