Interesting story Re WWII Japanese Internment

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

Have also met similar.

Have also met some that forgave.

I believe the answer is multi-fold.

First, the Japanese changed aspects of their culture.

They went from honor/dishonor and gradually implemented our idea of right/wrong.

It is difficult for us to grasp as a society that does has a sense of right and wrong ingrained an entire country that does not.

So one part is a change of culture.

Another part is family, the Japanese had very strong family ties in their culture.

Something the descendants of slaves where families are easily broken up by being bought and sold do not.

Then there is the aspect referred to already, something I consider less important. There are people motivated to keep this contentious, motivated to prevent healing. But leaders need willing followers, and not all the blame can be put out into this category. We are however putting out policies that will help perpetuate the situation.

I suspect the huge difference in culture was part of the reason for the internment. We could understand the motives of the Germans and the Axis solders, but the motivation to die rather than surrender and the apparent ease at the Japanese willingness to die or commit suicide instead of being captured played a big part. We just could not get our minds around that. And when the did capture American or our allies they were stunned that we would surrender and not fight to the death. Thus they treated captives as less than human.

A German American with no German accent was impossible to pick from a crowd by just looks. Picking an "oriental" out of a group of Caucasians is pretty simple. Rounding up all German descendants would be an impossible task but pretty easy for Japanese.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by rusnak

You don't suppose this Hallstead guy isn't just trying to sell books, do you?

The truth is that there were Japanese Americans, who were born in the US, who were sympathetic to Japan. That is a fact. My dad's cousin's family moved back to Japan rather than go to the camps. There, they were shunned by Japanese citizens, and starved. They had to steal food to survive, and ended up coming back to the U.S. Then there were the vast majority who went to the camps, after being forced to sell or leave almost all of their possessions behind. No one at the time really blamed Roosevelt for the evacuation. They sort of blamed Japan, but most were pragmatic, having survived through the worst year of the Great Depression, which for farmers living on the west coast, was 1932.


I also don't think you are REALLY trying to suggest that there was 'legitimacy' to the evacuation of the ethnicity of entire West coast of the continental USA based on this one incident. I mean, tell me if I'm wrong about that, or if you don't think popular fear had reached a level in a month and a half after the attack at Pearl Harbor to cause a rather hasty act on it's own.

You are right, the truth is they were Japanese Americans that burned the house down of their neighbor, supported an enemy combatant, and for days terrorized the town they had lived in peacefully for years. It was not one Japanese American but three that sympathized and supported a enemy solider over their adapted nation.
What a piece of history that needs to be told when talking about the interment of Japanese Americans during WWII.
Does it make it right? No. does it justify it? not really. does it ad to the reason why? Yes.
So this story should be told when talking about the interment of Japanese during WWII, if we want a more complete understanding of history.

[fintstone]

Different time, different viewpoints. Any culture that would send pilots out on kamikaze missions or would disembowel themselves if they dishonored themselves is totally foreign to us...as those who would execute prisoners, behead them or use them for "experiments". Similarly, it was pretty easy to fear the Japanese after a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. We did some brutal things as well...but different.

As far as Germans and Italian nationals (not U.S. citizens)...they were interred both in WW1 and WW2 in the U.S. as were POWs. There were only about 12k in WW2...so about 10% of the number of Japanese.

[rusnak]

Given that my entire family on both sides was shipped off to Arkansas, I can say that Glen is the closest to being correct. Ficke, I respectfully disagree with you 100%. Fint, I think you sort of embody the same sort of thinking that they had in the 1940s. I would say that only you could draw some sort of moral equivalent between say, a 5 year old daughter of some Japanese farmer who grows strawberries on a California farm, and a Kamikaze pilot. That is what you did there. You would indict an entire culture as deserving of imprisonment. I think the only thing that you and I agree on was that it was a natural human reaction to fear all of the "yellow bastard" Japanese people.

But if you want to know the perspective of how the Japanese here in America thought, because that is what you SHOULD be asking, is that the Japanese American people who were born here and had built up a life were horrified and even more terrified than their White friends were. You have to understand that they had school friends, colleagues, and neighbors who were outraged that they had been locked up and all of their land, possessions, and businesses were taken away from them. These were people who were farmers, teachers, government employees, artists, and college professors. They all lost everything.


If anyone was interested, I could upload footage that my grandpa took of the actual concentration camp and the people living there.

[fintstone]

You are mistaken. I draw no equivalent to anything (much less between kamikaze pilots and strawberry farmers)...but, the facts are the facts. Japanese culture (in Japan) was far different than that of most folks in our country. Certainly their military had a different code. Although not strawberry farmers, the traitors at Niʻihau were bee keepers. Lots of folks were scared. To be cautious probably was justified...but as we know...things went too far (confiscation, internment, etc.). Certainly, they should have not lost property, etc. We did the same with Germans and Italians in WW1 and 2 (who were not citizens) and native Americans just before that. Of course, hindsight is 20/20. On the other hand, maybe there were those among the "locked up" that would have sided with their brothers in Japan (like those in Niʻihau) or Germans that would have aided their homeland (as noted earlier, there were traitors of both Japanese and German ancestry in WW2). For recent immigrants, it must have been very difficult to side with their new country against the homeland. Perhaps the internment actually prevented some of them having to decide and it worked. The country was also very angry and to some extent, it might have also protected them from civil violence. As stated, hindsight...

Regardless, we do know that the story of Niʻihau and it being part of the rational for the internment (along with intel assessment) is not often told (as demonstrated by how few here knew about it.

Footage of the camp would be very interesting.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by fintstone

For recent immigrants, it must have been very difficult to side with their new country against the homeland. Perhaps the internment actually prevented some of them having to decide and it worked. The country was also very angry and to some extent, it might have also protected them from civil violence. As stated, hindsight...

No, you don't understand. Japan had a caste system. If you were born a son of a shoe repairman, you'll die a shoe repairman.

The first generation Japanese who moved here HATED that system. My great-grandpa hated the Emperor. He loved the freedom, the wide open spaces, and opportunity of America. He loved driving around in an American pickup truck. He said that his proudest achievement was becoming an American citizen in the 1950s. He loved this country even though the FBI tortured my grandpa. And this was a man who settled thousands of acres of farmland, and was sort of a Japanese Sam Walton. My siblings were all taught that the USA is the greatest country in the history of the world. We all wave the American flag and are as conservative and hard working as it gets. I don't doubt that any of my family would die to defend this country, but none were more anti-Japan and pro-USA than the one who came here and made a life out of nothing.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by rusnak

If anyone was interested, I could upload footage that my grandpa took of the actual concentration camp and the people living there.

Please do.

Your perspective is excellent.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by rusnak

No, you don't understand. Japan had a caste system. If you were born a son of a shoe repairman, you'll die a shoe repairman.

The first generation Japanese who moved here HATED that system. My great-grandpa hated the Emperor. He loved the freedom, the wide open spaces, and opportunity of America. He loved driving around in an American pickup truck. He said that his proudest achievement was becoming an American citizen in the 1950s. He loved this country even though the FBI tortured my grandpa. And this was a man who settled thousands of acres of farmland, and was sort of a Japanese Sam Walton. My siblings were all taught that the USA is the greatest country in the history of the world. We all wave the American flag and are as conservative and hard working as it gets. I don't doubt that any of my family would die to defend this country, but none were more anti-Japan and pro-USA than the one who came here and made a life out of nothing.

I think that most Japanese immigrants (and most Asian immigrants) were/are fabulous. Moreso than most. They are smart, industrious and patriotic. On the other hand, some Japanese-Americans (not many) still sided with Japan. We have immigrants from the ME that side with AQ and ISIS. Some are second and third generation. Some are even not of ME lineage. The folks that shot up a Christmas Party in CA were reportedly model citizens....enjoying the American dream. Sometimes folks see their loyalty different than others.

It sounds like your family were fabulous immigrants and patriots...just like my German and native American family members were (although some were locked up as well)...not to mention my horse-thieving Scot-Irish ancestors. At the time, folks thought they were doing the right thing. Many who fought in the Civil War on both sides were noble and brave (despite what the current version of history tells us). Hindsight is 20/20.

[beatnavy]

Originally Posted by rusnak

My siblings were all taught that the USA is the greatest country in the history of the world. We all wave the American flag and are as conservative and hard working as it gets. I don't doubt that any of my family would die to defend this country, but none were more anti-Japan and pro-USA than the one who came here and made a life out of nothing.

That's awesome. That is a huge part of what makes America both great and good.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Given that my entire family on both sides was shipped off to Arkansas, I can say that Glen is the closest to being correct. Ficke, I respectfully disagree with you 100%. Fint, I think you sort of embody the same sort of thinking that they had in the 1940s. I would say that only you could draw some sort of moral equivalent between say, a 5 year old daughter of some Japanese farmer who grows strawberries on a California farm, and a Kamikaze pilot. That is what you did there. You would indict an entire culture as deserving of imprisonment. I think the only thing that you and I agree on was that it was a natural human reaction to fear all of the "yellow bastard" Japanese people.

But if you want to know the perspective of how the Japanese here in America thought, because that is what you SHOULD be asking, is that the Japanese American people who were born here and had built up a life were horrified and even more terrified than their White friends were. You have to understand that they had school friends, colleagues, and neighbors who were outraged that they had been locked up and all of their land, possessions, and businesses were taken away from them. These were people who were farmers, teachers, government employees, artists, and college professors. They all lost everything.


If anyone was interested, I could upload footage that my grandpa took of the actual concentration camp and the people living there.

Thank you for your post. I would absolutely be interested in any information that you are willing to offer whether that be information that you are willing to post or send in PM or footage that you can upload. Thank you