Colt vs. Ruger Single Actions

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by jyl

The barrel could be in line with the bottom of the cylinder, which would allow a radically lower bore axis. Tricky for iron sights but not for optical. If revolvers were developed today without history and habit as constraints, I think they'd look pretty different.

It's been tried. Chiappa Arms is the latest. They get kind of clumsy. That, and the lower bore axis accentuates recoil, and not many folks like that. The "tent pole" item that drives the height of the revolver is the cylinder. Might as well put the barrel at the top of that. Just makes it a lot easier.

[Superman]

Is this what you recommend, Herr Higgins?




Now let's talk about holsters. I am thinking this will be my go-to carry piece in the backwoods, which means it will need to be below the hip strap of my backpack. This strikes me as a spoon that is not carried with the handle above the belt anyway. I think I need a 'low' holster, but not gunslinger-low. Who makes a good holster for one of these, where the handle of the spoon is about where the pants pockets openings are located?

[Jeff Higgins]

Excellent choice, Supe. That will serve you well. You will really appreciate the stainless steel on about your first wet overnighter.

Here is the lowest riding holster I have found, offered by a company called "Hunter". It sounds like a good idea at first, but I've found mine to be actually too low. It just flops around too much when you walk. The leg tie-down looks like it would help, but I just found it annoying:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021532308/hunter-1060-frontier-holster

My solution has been to simply use a normal high riding holster with a large enough belt loop on it to where I can slip it onto my back pack's waist belt. That's right - you don't wear it on your belt that holds up your pants, you wear it on your back pack waist belt.

When I do this, I sometimes prefer to wear a right handed holster on my left side. That way the grip points forwards. If the grip points backwards, it can wind up constantly banging up against the back pack, which can get pretty annoying. Of course I'm referring to full size, overnighter back packs, not day packs.

If going out on a day hike, or wearing a day pack while hunting, I simply wear the gun in a right handed hip holster of my right side, in the traditional manner. I just wear it on my belt that holds my pants up.

Many (most) leather holsters will not have a big enough belt loop to go over the typical buckle or clasp on a back pack. The "Mexican Loop" style holster will almost always fit, though.

Hunter makes a couple that work very well. Here is one of my favorites, because the loop part unsnaps and opens up to go over the belt, so you don't even have to slip it over the buckle:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/816316/hunter-1100-snap-off-holster

Here is their Mexican Loop design that works quite well:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021262777/hunter-1082-single-loop-holster

Either of the above can be worn on the back pack waist belt or on your pants belt.

The other option is, of course, nylon. Nylon is obviously better in our wet weather. I've found Uncle Mike's holsters to be top notch. I like their Sidekick for wearing on a pants belt, but they might not fit over a back pack belt buckle:

https://www.unclemikes.com/products/holsters/sidekick-holsters/sidekick-hip-holsters

I like my Bianchi and my El Paso Saddlery "Tom Threepersons" holsters as well, but they have small enough belt loops to preclude wearing them on a back pack waist belt:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1336394062/bianchi-1l-lawman-holster

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/156553/el-paso-saddlery-1920-tom-threepersons-holster

I know, I know - probably too may choices. I would lean towards the Uncle Mike's for sheer practicality and resistance to our weather. Its only question mark is whether its belt loop is big enough to slip onto your back pack's waist belt. Most gun stores will have one in stock, so you can bring your back pack in and check. Even if that's a no-go, buy it anyway, for those day hikes. Then go looking for one of the Hunters shown above - they might not be in stock just anywhere.

You might be getting the impression that holsters are a lot like women's purses, in that we need several for any given gun. That is absolutely true - we need to "dress" for different "occasions".

[Superman]

You have given me much to think about. More insight, which is what I requested. As you might imagine, I am fairly spry for an old fart but I find high-riding belt holsters to be ergonomic. Today, I can't put socks on just standing up. I can, but I should not. Pulling my .45 ACP out of the plastic holster which came in the case....I nearly have to bend over to get the spoon out. My shoulder is in my ear. I think this spoon is meant to carry at or below the belt, not above. I am very glad, already, that I listened to your advice on barrel length.

I did not know decent holsters could be so cheap. Crappy ones at 'that' sporting goods store mostly look like junk, and are more expensive.

The Mexican Loop looks like the most functional overall. The Hunter snap-on thing also looks utilitarian, for my purpose. If it's going to be cross-draw, then high works. In fact, if I had all these holsters to try with my spoon and backpack, I wonder if a left-handed unit would be best....riding inside the backpack strap. Lots to think about. THANK YOU for the advice and links.

I have to say, I find the 'waterproof' holster idea a bit amusing. Does this mean it would fill with water without leaking?

The snap-on Hunter looks like a good choice.

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by id10t

Never been a big fan of SA revolvers or lever guns, but have been considering one of the inexpensive Frontier 22 SA revolvers for just as a plinker.

levers are fun and not evil, because, hey the Duke used one..

all kidding aside, they still are a viable platform for hunting and self defense when used properly

[Superman]

BTW, though I have not fired this spoon, I really like it. It points itself. When I go to line my eye(s) up with the sights and the target, they are commonly already lined up. Waiting for my eye. For fine tuning of course, but it is remarkable how pointable this spoon is. Trigger pull is quite light, like I expected but (seemingly) nowhere near what I was told to expect. Not nearly 5#. A little more than the weight of the spoon, I think.

The spoon is heavy, unloaded. Probably just a little heavier loaded. I think this is a positive feature, and I'm a backpacker. In racing pounds are made of ounces. In backpacking, ounces are made of grams. Still, this heavy-ish handspoon seems worth the extra ounces. Steadiness of aim. This spoon is all about hitting your target. The first time. It probably helps further in recoil absorption. I am looking forward to firing this spoon.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Superman

I have to say, I find the 'waterproof' holster idea a bit amusing. Does this mean it would fill with water without leaking?

You actually raise a fairly hotly debated topic with regards to holster design.

Take a look at the Bianchi and El Paso Saddlery designs, for example. Very similar except that the Bianchi is open on the bottom and the El Paso is closed. The former will never fill up with water, while the latter might. Or so goes the argument. I have never had it happen, even in the heaviest downpour. I prefer the closed bottom. Especially in the snow. Even just mucking about in our wet and muddy woods, I like to know the muzzle is protected.

[bowenx]

Jeff, lots of great info in your posts. Thanks for sharing.
Have you seen the SA that Standard Manufacturing makes? I saw them in their showroom and they were awesome.

[Seahawk]

Great choice.

I have almost 1000 rounds through my stainless Vaquero and really enjoy the gun Feng shui of shooting a single action revolver.

Enjoy.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Superman

BTW, though I have not fired this spoon, I really like it. It points itself. When I go to line my eye(s) up with the sights and the target, they are commonly already lined up. Waiting for my eye. For fine tuning of course, but it is remarkable how pointable this spoon is. Trigger pull is quite light, like I expected but (seemingly) nowhere near what I was told to expect. Not nearly 5#. A little more than the weight of the spoon, I think.

Yes. Widely regarded as the most intuitive handgun design of all time. And one of the "friendliest" for the broadest variety of people to hold, to find a comfortable grip. Not as precise and "locked in" as more modern designs, but eminently "shootable".

Originally Posted by Superman

The spoon is heavy, unloaded. Probably just a little heavier loaded. I think this is a positive feature, and I'm a backpacker. In racing pounds are made of ounces. In backpacking, ounces are made of grams. Still, this heavy-ish handspoon seems worth the extra ounces. Steadiness of aim. This spoon is all about hitting your target. The first time. It probably helps further in recoil absorption. I am looking forward to firing this spoon.

They are a bit more substantial than most modern semi-autos, but as big bore revolvers go, they are actually one of the smallest and lightest. An "N" frame S&W, for example (.357, .41, .44 mag) is a much bigger, heavier gun.

The .45 Colt, in its standard loadings, is quite manageable in these guns. The grip shape really helps, as the gun rolls back in your hand under recoil. Those used to their 9mm's might find the recoil a bit heavy at first, but if you have some time with a .45 ACP, the .45 Colt is pretty similar.

Originally Posted by bowenx

Jeff, lots of great info in your posts. Thanks for sharing.
Have you seen the SA that Standard Manufacturing makes? I saw them in their showroom and they were awesome.

I have not seen one in person. Brian Pearce gives them a good review in the last issue of Handloader magazine, and I very much respect his opinion. My only complaint echoes his - the case coloring is all wrong. Way, way too dark. He says that he is working with them on that.

These remind me of the old USFA guns of about a decade ago. Another very faithful, very high quality copy of the Colt. But therein lies the rub - "copy of the Colt". Why bother, when real Colts are still made, and available for about the same money? Colt are now making, in my humble opinion, the best Peacemakers they have ever made. I have several made in the last decade, and all are fantastic guns, and shoot very, very well.

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Great choice.

I have almost 1000 rounds through my stainless Vaquero and really enjoy the gun Feng shui of shooting a single action revolver.

Enjoy.

Yes. The relaxed pace, the unhurried nature of single action shooting is just fun. They are much more involving than other handguns, with their slow, cumbersome loading, unloading, and reloading. You really want to make every shot count, and wind up slowing down enough to do so. Probably the best guns ever with which to teach new shooters, too. They are made to get involved and understand how the whole thing works.

[tabs]

Now this is a mans SA, Speaks for itself..got this for a song at a LJG auction in Anaheim..



This is an Italian copy of the Colt Bisley Flat Top TGT circa 1900, limited production back in the day, refinished start at 4K and go way up for original finish. Had an original and sold it thinking I could get a USFA Bisley FT TGT to shoot.. Nope outa bizness and impossible to find, USFA was using Italian parts away. Uberti discontinued these in 04 and are impossible to find.



This is the real deal 1st gen C SA circa 1912..44/40 wt factory letter...possible Adm Kimmel association?

[Superman]

The Vaquero I bought (in a barrel length not offered by Cabelas) is going away. It's (Vaquero .45 Colt) replacement is on a truck which should be here tomorrow. I had imagined there was no way Ruger would fail to make a proper spoon, but that one was improper. The loading gate presses downward on a detent which likely performs other functions. You can see this tiny thing if you remove the cylinder. That detent stopped moving. The guys at the gun store even said the other mechanisms (like the hammer) were not working and sounding correct. The loading gate problem got so bad the gate was visibly damaged where it met the detent, and the loading gate was nearly impossible to open. This spoon has not been fired.

I told the guy I like the grips on the first one and since I didn't have the case with me at the time, I still have the gun. I'll take it in tomorrow and, if I like, we'll swap grips.

Disappointing and surprising. I thought, and still think, Ruger makes a quality spoon. There is doubt, though.

[Jeff Higgins]

This ball detente is unique to the New Vaquero. It was added to answer the demands of the Cowboy Action Shooting fraternity. Ruger single actions, ever since the introduction of the transfer bar mechanism, do not index the cylinder's revolution to line up with the loading gate as they should. We have to hold some thumb pressure on the cylinder to keep chambers lined up with the loading gate to load and unload the things. A minor inconvenience, but the Coboys hated it, since some of their stages involve a reload, and all are timed. The ball detente fixes this problem.

I'm sure the next one will be just fine. I know Cabela's is pretty anal about such things, but make sure you insist on cycling it a few times before accepting the new one.

Oh, and good thing it's a Ruger - the grips will interchange. Colts still will not do that - we have to hand fit all of them, to this day.

[Superman]

Good to know. The new unit is back in my hands and is being dry-cycled between posts. The grips were swapped. The new unit had grips which were more zebra-striped. I prefer a lower bling-quotient. At least for this machine.

Teaser: In a week, I will likely post pics of my engine fan and housing, which are on their way to me from Shaun. I finally love this Mocha 911 so she's getting new fuel pump, brake MC, etc. When I do these winter car projects, which are mainly functional, I do like to include an aesthetic feature.

[Jeff Higgins]

So, all is well with the replacement? I assume it must be, or it would not have followed you home.

[Superman]

I am not so discerning as you but I checked it out. Loading gate works fine. Couple hundred pretend rounds through it. Feels smoother than a few hours ago.

I really do like this spoon. It feels right. It feels deliberate and seems to point itself. What a nice firearm to own. Looking forward to pulling the trigger and hearing more than 'click.'

[Jeff Higgins]

Awesome. Enjoy.

Be aware, it will take some "trigger time" to become one with your single action. More so than with a modern semi-auto. The grip shape contributes to a less than repeatable hold, the need to cock the hammer requires you move your grip a bit (the recoil will do that for you anyway), the hammer fall is long, slow, and hits like - like, well, a hammer... Lots of things conspiring against good shooting. Like all good things in life, though, effort is rewarded. Learning to shoot a single action well is one of the more satisfying accomplishments in the shooting world. Not everyone is up for it.

[Superman]

Thanks, Jeff. I will focus on the goal. I have a gut feeling I will be more comfortable with this thing than the others.

[Superman]

Professor Higgins, I finally ordered and received the simple leather Hunter holster. At first, I didn't think it fit. The spoon must be jammed quite firmly into the holster in order for the strap to fit over the back of the spoon and reach the snap. For this and other reasons, I am thinking of using my new bottle of Obenauf's Leather Oil on this holster. What say ye?

The holster does in fact fit, perfectly, or at least it will when properly treated and/or broken in. This holster is one of if not the most popular holsters for this spoon, which I can understand now.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Superman

Is this what you recommend, Herr Higgins?




Now let's talk about holsters. I am thinking this will be my go-to carry piece in the backwoods, which means it will need to be below the hip strap of my backpack. This strikes me as a spoon that is not carried with the handle above the belt anyway. I think I need a 'low' holster, but not gunslinger-low. Who makes a good holster for one of these, where the handle of the spoon is about where the pants pockets openings are located?

A local guy made this rig.