DIY solar - anyone done it?

[brp914]

I've got quotes from the big players - high $20s for 5KW with Li battery, or high teen $ w/o. Problem is, if the grid goes down your system goes down, ostensibly to protect linesmen making repairs. It's BS, but that's the way it is. The alternative is to go off-grid and DIY. Kits are available at Costco, HD, etc. Probably more complete and which includes support would be Wholesale Solar:

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1891449/wholesale-solar/complete-systems/the-homestead-3.72-kw-12-panel-mission-solar-off-grid-solar-system

There's even an interesting character, Jack Rickard, an engineer, who is designing systems around repurposed Tesla batteries that can be obtained inexpensively:

http://media3.ev-tv.me/news011819-iPhone.mp4

These DIY systems are approx 1/2 the price. But you've got to haul yer ass up on the roof and do it. So, has anyone pulled this off w/o breaking their neck or burning their house down?

[stomachmonkey]

Ask Redbeard.

He can tell you more than you’ll ever need to know.

[red-beard]

Sup?

[brp914]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Sup?

'Sup? That's what I'm asking. Jack Rickard has hooked up with MIT engineer Senator Massey of TN to make a touch-screen display connected to Amazon AWS cloud to monitor your solar system. Wild stuff. If you start watching his videos you'll likely get hooked, even if not just because the opening music.

[red-beard]

Wholesale solar is overpriced.

1. Look at your electric usage (last 12 months of bills)
2. Check with your electric company on what happens if you sell them power
3. What are the building and electrical permit requirements in your area
4. What are the electric company regulations for grid connection

All solar inverters are setup to disconnect the grid loses power. It is not BS. Most of the grid-tied inverters are simply money saving systems and they must disconnect. And you do not want to put power down the lines when the grid is down. Yes, you can kill linemen.

Battery based systems are not difficult to build, but you need decide your purpose. If it is backup power, then there are solutions that direction. If you want to "net meter" yourself with batteries, there are choices that direction.

Battery based systems work better if you use DC coupling to the batteries.

We build hybrid solar energy systems. Battery based solar energy systems with integral backup generators.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

My electric bill is between $300 and $600 each month. I'm going to look into solar this summer.

[brp914]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Wholesale solar is overpriced.

All solar inverters are setup to disconnect the grid loses power. It is not BS. Most of the grid-tied inverters are simply money saving systems and they must disconnect. And you do not want to put power down the lines when the grid is down. Yes, you can kill linemen.

Protecting linesman absolutely is not BS. What is BS is not being able to use my panels if the grid is down. It would be simple to disconnect my panels from the grid while still being able to use them. There must be non-grid inverters that work this way. Since none of the big installers do off-grid I want to build a system to maintain critical loads.

I suspected Wholesale Solar prices were more than the cost of the components, but it would save a 100 trips to the store and they offer support.

Do you do off-grid installs?

[Zeke]

So, at this point in time is there anyone selling a more or less DIY kit? I mean it can't be too tough to install the panels, daisy chain them and bring all of that to the service entrance. Maybe have an electrician do the final hook up and get the inspection.

The question is, if a homeowner can provide enough information so that a system can be designed for the purpose for which it is intended, why can't someone calc the thing out and provide a list of needed major components?

I'm thinking Tire Rack here. Lots of people buy their tires on TR but I bet 1% install the tires themselves. Furthering the TR comparison, said customer removes the wheels, transports them and reinstalls them. The shop sent them out balanced and ready to go.

Panels arrive, you do the grunt work and sparky looks things over, checks the design calcs only to see that the rough install is according to the plan and tightens the final screw.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by brp914

Protecting linesman absolutely is not BS. What is BS is not being able to use my panels if the grid is down. It would be simple to disconnect my panels from the grid while still being able to use them. There must be non-grid inverters that work this way. Since none of the big installers do off-grid I want to build a system to maintain critical loads.

You are talking apple and oranges. For most people, they simply want to save money. Grid tied systems require the grid to operate properly.

I can sell you the parts if you want to self install, no issue. You do need to be competent with electrical and roof work.

Originally Posted by brp914

Do you do off-grid installs?

We prefer to work with local solar installers. We do some locally, in the Houston area.

[brp914]

Originally Posted by red-beard

You are talking apple and oranges. For most people, they simply want to save money. Grid tied systems require the grid to operate properly.

My electricity bills are fairly low. I don't expect to save money - maybe just break even. I want to be self-sufficient and have the luxury of power in the event of storms, fires, earthquakes, whatever. The tax credit starts phasing out after this year.

In So Cal, Edison would only pay $0.03/kwhr for my solar, while charging 0.22 to 0.48 for power I bought that my panels couldn't produce. Paying someone to connect my panels to the grid is nearly pointless. If I hire Sunlux that's the way it'll be, but if I self-install I will make off-grid circuits for fridge, lights, electronics, and of course PARF.

[brp914]

Originally Posted by Zeke

So, at this point in time is there anyone selling a more or less DIY kit? I mean it can't be too tough to install the panels, daisy chain them and bring all of that to the service entrance. Maybe have an electrician do the final hook up and get the inspection.

The question is, if a homeowner can provide enough information so that a system can be designed for the purpose for which it is intended, why can't someone calc the thing out and provide a list of needed major components?

I'm thinking Tire Rack here. Lots of people buy their tires on TR but I bet 1% install the tires themselves. Furthering the TR comparison, said customer removes the wheels, transports them and reinstalls them. The shop sent them out balanced and ready to go.

Panels arrive, you do the grunt work and sparky looks things over, checks the design calcs only to see that the rough install is according to the plan and tightens the final screw.

Check the link above - that's exactly what Wholesale solar does. They are in CA. They'll assist with permits, engineering, and sell complete kits. Might even hook you up with an installer.

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by brp914

In So Cal, Edison would only pay $0.03/kwhr for my solar, while charging 0.22 to 0.48 for power I bought that my panels couldn't produce.

That is not correct. SoCal Edison just adopted NEM 2.0 last year and any excess production is at the retail rate from day to day, and under NEM 2.0 you are grandfathered for 20 years.

You are confusing the YEARLY excess production meaning if you produce more than you used at your yearly true up, they will only pay you wholesale rates.

[brp914]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

That is not correct. SoCal Edison just adopted NEM 2.0 last year and any excess production is at the retail rate from day to day, and under NEM 2.0 you are grandfathered for 20 years.

You are confusing the YEARLY excess production meaning if you produce more than you used at your yearly true up, they will only pay you wholesale rates.

Thanks for that. When must your panels be up-and-running to be grandfathered?

Nevertheless, the CA Rule 21 requirement that homeowners have their systems shut off during grid downtimes seems nutty. As I understand it, those who install back-up generators have to install automatic cut-off switches to prevent power from going to the grid. Why can't the same be applied to panels?

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by brp914

Thanks for that. When must your panels be up-and-running to be grandfathered?
?

There is no cutoff date, it is determined by number of systems up and running but I would guess you have several years before 3.0 comes around.

You will be required to have a smart inverter now, that went into effect about 2 weeks ago. I have no clue how that would affect my system since I have microinverters.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Zeke

So, at this point in time is there anyone selling a more or less DIY kit? I mean it can't be too tough to install the panels, daisy chain them and bring all of that to the service entrance. Maybe have an electrician do the final hook up and get the inspection.

The question is, if a homeowner can provide enough information so that a system can be designed for the purpose for which it is intended, why can't someone calc the thing out and provide a list of needed major components?

I'm thinking Tire Rack here. Lots of people buy their tires on TR but I bet 1% install the tires themselves. Furthering the TR comparison, said customer removes the wheels, transports them and reinstalls them. The shop sent them out balanced and ready to go.

Panels arrive, you do the grunt work and sparky looks things over, checks the design calcs only to see that the rough install is according to the plan and tightens the final screw.

Honestly, it is not that difficult. You do need to be a bit concerned on the hook up, since the panels are electrically alive when hooked up. And you need to be concerned with getting the roof connects correct, or risk leaks.

On the main electrical connection, you do have to have electrical disconnects to meet the latest NEC.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by brp914

Thanks for that. When must your panels be up-and-running to be grandfathered?

Nevertheless, the CA Rule 21 requirement that homeowners have their systems shut off during grid downtimes seems nutty. As I understand it, those who install back-up generators have to install automatic cut-off switches to prevent power from going to the grid. Why can't the same be applied to panels?

Regular grid tied systems can't operate without power. And you cannot use a generator directly with grid tied solar, as it is possible to back feed the generator, if your usage is less than the solar produces.

Regular grid tied solar can modulate output like a DC coupled system.

I was reading through the SCE website and with the latest regulations, I seriously doubt they will allow a self done grid-tied install.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

There is no cutoff date, it is determined by number of systems up and running but I would guess you have several years before 3.0 comes around.

You will be required to have a smart inverter now, that went into effect about 2 weeks ago. I have no clue how that would affect my system since I have microinverters.

The old inverters were mandated to disconnect if the voltage and frequency are outside a certain range. So if a disturbance occurs, all of the solar on that line drop off, causing a worse disturbance. The new regulations, UL 1741 SA, require "ride through" and power factor support.

It is so bad in Hawaii, I believe they are requiring people to retrofit their inverters.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

That is not correct. SoCal Edison just adopted NEM 2.0 last year and any excess production is at the retail rate from day to day, and under NEM 2.0 you are grandfathered for 20 years.

You are confusing the YEARLY excess production meaning if you produce more than you used at your yearly true up, they will only pay you wholesale rates.

Honestly, Net Metering is wrong. It was "easy" back when there was little solar. In Texas, you have two rates on your bill, generation and delivery. Most solar plans will reimburse generation, but not delivery. There are a few companies doing regular net-metering, but usually your base rate is extremely high.

My plan will reimburse nothing, which is why I use a battery system to net-meter myself.

[brp914]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Regular grid tied systems can't operate without power. And you cannot use a generator directly with grid tied solar, as it is possible to back feed the generator, if your usage is less than the solar produces.

Regular grid tied solar can modulate output like a DC coupled system.

I was reading through the SCE website and with the latest regulations, I seriously doubt they will allow a self done grid-tied install.

If I do it, it will not be grid tied at all - totally separate. As far as Edison is concerned it will appear to them that I just began using a lot less power.

[A930Rocket]

Red, you mention a proper install or you risk leaks. What does that entail and how new does your roof have to be to install a system?

If your on year 20 or 25 with 30 year shingles, would it be prudent to install a new roof?

I’m not about to install a system but I’m curious about this.

Thanks!