Another azzhold neighbor thread - funny ending

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

The shed looks great. "Cute" I think is the word. But it is built very poorly. It's sitting on rotting posts and the floor is giving way. If I kept it it would mean major rebuilding. We've used it for a year and neither of us are liking it. It's more of a kids playhouse than a serious building. The ceiling is 7' and it has ceiling fans - and I have the bruises to prove it!
It's a shame to have to evict the snakes, possums, skunks, and raccoons that live under it ( full disclosure, I haven't actually seen skunks or raccoons, just snakes and possums).

I kinda figured that but the thought was worth a go. Looks good in the pics though.

How about this: when you build your nice new garage why not make it somewhat charming on one end or a corner bump out? Nice to have a little fun place that is not too hard to heat in the winter where you can do some potting and starting seeds for the summer garden. Or whatever. Little shops can be as fun as big ones.

[wdfifteen]

Adventures in bureaucracy!

So they told me i had to apply for a a zoning variance - and right on the application it said my property is zone agricultural.
I got my variance, but before I did anything I needed to get the place surveyed so I would know where the property line is, so I call the local ace surveyor - good luck on my part because the guy is fantastic. First he asked why I'm getting a variance on land that is zone agricultural, because in this county you can build any damn thing you want (that isn't a dwelling) without a building permit and without conforming to setback requirements.
They didn't tell me that at the zoning office. I later asked them why and they said I told them I wanted to build a "garage." If I had said "barn" they would have told me I didn't need the variance. I am now officially building a new barn.
He proceeded to do the survey and found that the property line is so much farther east than we assumed that it runs through my chicken barn and the shed I want to tear down. Even with 0 setback the proposed garage would be too close to the house.
My surveyor said basically I'm screwed.
I went to the land use czar of the county and told him the story. This is where it gets interesting.
I can get my neighbor to sell a few hundred square feet of property - enough to get the buildings onto my property and incidentally enough to make room for my new "barn" - to a straw man (my attorney). The straw man will then sell the property to me, and I can incorporate it into my property.
I have no idea why it must be done this way.
The new survey has been done and I'm seeing the lawyer in a couple of days. Progress!

My neighbor is a character, we're always giving each other a hard time. We were in the land use office talking to them about the land sale. It was to be for $1, but he had to complicate things. Daniel says, "Well, if your chicken barn is on our property we should at least be getting free eggs."
"Daniel, we've been giving you eggs for a year." (Our chickens lay too many eggs for us and we have been supplying out neighbor with eggs for a year)
"Oh....that's true. You know I was wondering why you were giving us all those eggs."

[wdfifteen]

I haven't updated this thread in a long time, but progress has been made. The land use czar in the county is a guy named Craig. His father, Bill, is a civil engineer in the county. It turns out that Bill has an antique truck and about 15 years ago I did a magazine story on his truck. Bill was at the hearing, but I didn't recognize him. We came out of the hearing and he cornered me and reminded me of who he was and pulled out his wallet. He still carries around a photo I took of his truck 15 years ago! The next week Craig said, "No problem" to getting our permit request changed from garage to a barn. All we have to do is get an electrical permit - no zoning issues and no building permit. Yayyy!
Unfortunately, by this time (late May) our community had experienced a series of really destructive tornadoes - lots of houses and business damaged or destroyed. All the area contractors and all the material had been diverted to rebuilding the houses and business that were destroyed. Our excavator guy came by and told me he had volunteered his labor and the use of his excavator for two weeks on the cleanup and my project might be delayed he hoped I understood. I gave him $100 for fuel and told him to go get busy. That two weeks turned into a six week delay.

OK some pictures of the progress ...



Looking west.
Finally, tearing down the playhouse - early October.



Looking south.
Pouring the footer.



Foundation block going in. You can see the season has changed because the trees have turned color.



The rock chucker is filling in the excavation. Trees have lost a lot of leaves and MrsWD's banana plant in the forground is looking distressed. The wooden pallets on the floor are holding the backfill out of the area where they will be pouring 12" of concrete for the lift.



Pouring the floor. The area where the lift will be is 12” deep and reinforced with wire and rebar. Over all footprint of the barn is 44'x24' .Trees are almost bare.

[wdfifteen]

Looking west.
The framing is done and they've thrown up some sheeting to get through the bad weather expected over Thanksgiving weekend. MrsWD's banana plant has bitten the dust.
Sometime around mid-summer, before the demo had taken place, I decided to make the barn a split-level. A flat floor would leave the north end about 4 feet above grade. That's four feet of eights fill, which flows just about like water, pushing out on the foundation. I didn't like it, the builder didn't like it, a building inspector would probably want a bunch if support - yech. So MrsWD and I decided to make her area three feel lower than the main part of the barn. Also, her area go defined as 20 feet by 24 feet. Upside it is will be easy to put a pair of 3 foot doors on her side - so the lawnmowers can go down there. Win for me!



Looking north.
MrsWD wanted storage so we ordered attic trusses. They leave an approximately 10 foot wide by 6'5 space above the ceiling. More on the 6'5 height next.



The truss builder was way behind due to the tornado. Not only was he late, he screwed up the order. The vertical piece (white arrow) was supposed to be directly above the wall, but it is about 10" too far to the outside. He also made the attic space 5" higher than designed. We were faced with sending them back and waiting another 6 weeks to 2 months to get new trusses or to be creative. We wanted a substantial "eyebrow" over the 6' door on the east side anyway. So we decided to extend the top cord out far enough to return a soffit back to the part of the truss that bumps out beyond the wall. The brick facing will run straight up to the soffit, the bricklayer won't have to deal with the bump-out, and we get a 4'5" overhang down the length of the building. I see it as another win.

[A930Rocket]

Nice work.

Keep us posted!

[unclebilly]

The engineer in me is screaming out about that last photo.

You need to ask the truss company if those trusses can deal with the snow load being supported that way. The vertical support is supposed to be directly under that vertical truss member. The lower cord is quite wide so I imagine it’s ok but you still need to ask.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

The engineer in me is screaming out about that last photo.

You need to ask the truss company if those trusses can deal with the snow load being supported that way. The vertical support is supposed to be directly under that vertical truss member. The lower cord is quite wide so I imagine it’s ok but you still need to ask.

Good eye. Yes, we discussed that. The top cord will be extended out and down far enough that the end is at the same level as the lower chord. A piece of 2x8 will be sistered on to the lower cord and extend out to the end of the upper chord. So the lower chord in that 10'" cantilevered area will be 4x8 for 36". It should be strong enough to transfer the load to the wall.

The "4x10" in the picture should be "4x8".

Cool garage, Patrick.

[wdfifteen]

Progress has been fast over the last couple of weeks and I'm getting excited. There are only a couple of road bumps in the way now - weather and the electric company. They are supposed to start the brick work Wednesday Dec. 11th, but the temperature is supposed to be 10 degrees Wednesday night.



Once the concrete work was done the framing a sheathing only took about 10 days. Three of them were wasted talking to the truss engineer about the wrong trusses.



We changed our minds and decided to insulate and finish the lower 20x24 section.



Road bump #2 is the electric service. The engineer originally had us tapping into the main panel in the basement of the house. That would mean power for the barn would go from the transformer, which is located about 20 feet from the south end of barn, to the house and loop around a good 300 feet back to the north end of the barn. Four wire cable from the house to the barn was going to cost $7 a foot!



The transformer (green box) is about 20 feet from the new barn. I want to put the property's main panel on the barn and make the panels in the house sub-panels. He's concerned that the wire would have to go under the driveway - but the wire already goes under the driveway! The engineer is thinking about it, which will take until at least next week before we get an answer.

[wdfifteen]

Thank you. I tried digging through the NEC and I can't find anything about it. Your help is appreciated.

[carambola]

Under the driveway is no big deal, 24" to the top of the pipe and you are good to go.

The big deal is now you are moving the meter and main service to an incomplete structure that will need a new utility tie in while still paying $7+ a foot to feed your house. Figure the house is going to have a larger service than the garage so that figure of seven dollars per foot is only going up.

If you are curious, I think it is Table 300.5 in the NEC for burial depths.

[A930Rocket]

Can you not install a meter can on the “barn” and have two meters?

Good, fast and cheap.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Can you not install a meter can on the “barn” and have two meters?

Good, fast and cheap.

Yes I can. I'll have two accounts with a minimum monthly charge of $29.00 and probably rising. I'd like to avoid that, even if I have to pay more up front.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by carambola

The big deal is now you are moving the meter and main service to an incomplete structure that will need a new utility tie in while still paying $7+ a foot to feed your house. Figure the house is going to have a larger service than the garage so that figure of seven dollars per foot is only going up.

I'm not sure I follow. There is already an adequate line from the transformer to the 200 amp service in the house, so no extra wire needed there. Assuming they want conduit under the driveway we will have to dig up about 30 feet of the cable that goes the to the house, basically from near the transformer to past the driveway, and put it in conduit.

[john70t]

Use a concrete saw and cut a trench perpendicular.
Lay protected PVC with drainage channel/bed/ holes/holes/etc.
Use direct-bury wire already rated for ground.
Fill in.

[Baz]

RIP Mrs.WD's banana.....

[MBAtarga]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Yes I can. I'll have two accounts with a minimum monthly charge of $29.00 and probably rising. I'd like to avoid that, even if I have to pay more up front.

For my detached workshop, Georgia Power dropped a pole behind the shop, added a transformer, and attached power lines to the power head they gave me - all for FREE. This is a 2nd line on my account - so the rates are a little higher. The alternative was to spend about $8k up front with 200 feet of trenching and the costs of electric cable to go from our house panel over to the shop. I'm more than happy spending $20-25 a month for the next 30 years.

[billybek]

Hang the meter at the garage.
Panel in the garage is made to be the "main" panel for the property.
The 200 amp panel in the house is now a sub panel.
Worked for me with my garage build.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Zeke

That still might be the way to go. The meter won't use much so you'll likely pay only the 29.00

I hate the idea of paying for nothing, but it may be the most economical way to go.
I went through this at my old place. After 15 years of paying the minimum we decided we were going to live there forever and spent $2700 running wire to eliminate the second meter. Five years later we sold the place.
You just never know what the future will bring.

[RWebb]

was it not economical to have all the floor at the same level?