GF learned a hard lesson today - PPI

[WolfeMacleod]

A couple years ago she bought a '97 Dodge Dakota 4x4. Nice looking truck.
I advised getting a PPI on it. "But it's pristine" she insisted. And it ran pretty well.

Pretty quickly, the low oil pressure problem became apparent. Once warmed up, pressure would drop to nothing. We replaced the pressure sensor because it was the least expensive thing to start with. Nope.

She drove it rarely, due to that.

"Rod bearings" I tried to tell her.
"Oil pump" she insisted.

A couple weeks ago, she sold her 2010 Tiguan to CarMax, figuring she'd put it towards getting a new oil pump installed. Nevermind that the stealership she bought it from already supposedly put a new pump in it for her @$400 as a courtesy. Which didn't help. We don't think they actually did that.
The Tiguan was on it's third water pump in just 75,000 miles... and throwing "too lean at idle" codes. And carbon buildup, misfire codes. And had melted a fuse block in 2015. She was done with it...Carmax gave her $5k.

Several months ago she inquired with a local place. Guy looked at the dipstick and showed her the glitter. Which she could not see...

I also showed her metal specs a few weeks ago.

Today she learned the truth. It lived a hard life, despite being "pristine"
Rod bearings. And other issues. New engine needed.

Hopefully she's figured out that a PPI is necessary.

I feel terrible for her.

[BeyGon]

so terrible you had to tell us how RIGHT you were and dumb she is. she needs another friend.

[gordner]

Or he is just relating a cautionary tale that is applicable to most of us, being car guys.

[wdfifteen]

How would a PPI have discovered a looming low oil pressure situation? Would they have put a gauge on it? Pulled the pan to look at the bearings? It seems it would have to have been a particularly thorough PPI to reveal a future problem.

[Jrboulder]

If an oil pump only costs $400 and a junkyard engine installed costs $2000 there only has to be a >20% chance it's the oil pump to make it a smart bet.

Obviously you have to estimate that probability through knowledge, experience and research and I can't imagine a scenario where the oil pump itself would be making metal 1 out of 5 times.

[Jims5543]

I have a personal rule regarding PPI's under 10K no PPI, over then get one.

A quick google search suggests a 97 Dakota runs about $2500.

I would not have paid for a PPI on that Truck.

Sound like she rolled the dice and lost. She can either go into that one for more money, or sell it off and try again.

Here is something she can try, she really has nothing to lose at this point.

I purchased a 1978 Austin Mini years ago for over 10K and broke my rule. I did not get a PPI because the seller was a "good guy" on a car forum. In reality he played stupid and knew he was unloading a bad purchase on me. Then engine was bad and suffered from low oil pressure.

I put in 20w50 Castrol GTX motor oil replacing 1 quart with a quart of Lucas Oil Stabilizer.

The oil pressure was actually a little higher and I drove the damn thing for 3 years like that. I always expected the engine to let go and it never did. I have it pulled now and have a fresher engine swapped in, I am looking forward to tearing it down and seeing all that is wrong inside. It is a 1290 Motor that pulled like a raped ape, so I want to rebuild it and put in back in.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

How would a PPI have discovered a looming low oil pressure situation? Would they have put a gauge on it? Pulled the pan to look at the bearings? It seems it would have to have been a particularly thorough PPI to reveal a future problem.

It was an immediate problem, once fully warmed up at idle.

Originally Posted by Jims5543

I have a personal rule regarding PPI's under 10K no PPI, over then get one.

A quick google search suggests a 97 Dakota runs about $2500.

I would not have paid for a PPI on that Truck.

Sound like she rolled the dice and lost. She can either go into that one for more money, or sell it off and try again.

Here is something she can try, she really has nothing to lose at this point.

I purchased a 1978 Austin Mini years ago for over 10K and broke my rule. I did not get a PPI because the seller was a "good guy" on a car forum. In reality he played stupid and knew he was unloading a bad purchase on me. Then engine was bad and suffered from low oil pressure.

I put in 20w50 Castrol GTX motor oil replacing 1 quart with a quart of Lucas Oil Stabilizer.

The oil pressure was actually a little higher and I drove the damn thing for 3 years like that. I always expected the engine to let go and it never did. I have it pulled now and have a fresher engine swapped in, I am looking forward to tearing it down and seeing all that is wrong inside. It is a 1290 Motor that pulled like a raped ape, so I want to rebuild it and put in back in.

Right at 10k. I've been suggesting heavier oil. She's running 10-30 in it, I think. I run 2050 in all mine, save for my Saturn.

Originally Posted by gordner

Or he is just relating a cautionary tale that is applicable to most of us, being car guys.

They could be it. Beygon just likes to insult and berate people he hates. He can feel free to ignore this cautionary tale.

[asphaltgambler]

One thing a lot of people continually overlook besides the PPI, is a extended test drive. Something like 15 or more miles, get things hot. Most things like the OP's problem would have showed

[BeyGon]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

It was an immediate problem, once fully warmed up at idle.



Right at 10k. I've been suggesting heavier oil. She's running 10-30 in it, I think. I run 2050 in all mine, save for my Saturn.



They could be it. Beygon just likes to insult and berate people he hates. He can feel free to ignore this cautionary tale.

lots of people have differences with their significant other but they don't berate them here, you, with all your expertise could have looked it over, helped her out.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

so terrible you had to tell us how RIGHT you were and dumb she is. she needs another friend.

We all tell stories here whether they are about stupid stuff that we've done or stupid stuff that a friend has done or stupid stuff that strangers have done.

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

It was an immediate problem, once fully warmed up at idle.

Right at 10k. I've been suggesting heavier oil. She's running 10-30 in it, I think. I run 2050 in all mine, save for my Saturn.

They could be it. Beygon just likes to insult and berate people he hates. He can feel free to ignore this cautionary tale.

Sounds to me like the test drive was insufficient. She would have seen the issue if she drove it enough to warm it up. With a car purchase, it's too easy to walk and find something else if anything doesn't look/feel/sound/smell right. I don't think I'd have done a PPI for a $10k appliance, but then I'm either good or lucky or both about test-driving and buying cars. (except that one time)

But, some folks can only learn the hard way.

Ouch, 10w30 with low pressure?

OK, yeah, now that I think about it, when I was young and dumb, I once let my emotions and laziness get the best of me and paid the price. I went to look at a '69 Buick Riviera. The interior was beautiful and custom. The guy worked at an upholstery shop and had done the whole thing. The exterior was decent original paint (still shiny) and absolutely no rust anywhere. When I went to check out the car, I took a mechanical oil pressure gauge with the intention of checking it. It's the ONLY time I've ever taken a gauge or even felt the need to take a gauge. THe car looked so nice and started up and rain smoothly and the port for the oil pressure sender was in a weird location that was going to be a pain to work with so I decided to skip it. Yeah, the car got me home and then around to a few friends places and almost back home and died. Spun bearings and when I pulled the motor and dropped the oil pan, there was what appeared to be a half a dozen sets of various gaskets in the bottom of the pan that had clogged the pickup. I was poor and had spent all of my extra money on that car. I had a good time rebuilding the motor but did something else stupid in the process. I got disgusted and sold the car to a guy for $100. He got a steal of a deal because I had about $2-3k worth of parts in the thing and it only required a couple/few hours to get it running. My roommate tried to get me to get it running a few times, but I was just done with it. I made a few mistakes on that car, but they were educational. It worked out for the best in the long run, though.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

It was an immediate problem, once fully warmed up at idle.

Right at 10k. I've been suggesting heavier oil. She's running 10-30 in it, I think. I run 2050 in all mine, save for my Saturn.

I would swap in some 20/50 and a quart of Lucas, it sounds like the engine is done, maybe stave off the inevitable?

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

One thing a lot of people continually overlook besides the PPI, is a extended test drive. Something like 15 or more miles, get things hot. Most things like the OP's problem would have showed

My son just purchased a 2007 WRX STI, I know nothing about them, he had been researching for about a year and it was the car he wanted.

He asked me to take look at it, test drive it etc.. I told him I have no idea what to look for on them but I can give my opinion on the basic overall condition of it.

It drove nice, we took it on a 10 mile loop, wish now we drove it much further.

It has a gas tank pressure problem, when ever you put gas it in it takes about 5-10 minutes to recover and run right. Something we could have flushed out on the test drive if we put a splash in. You are always learning.

2 weeks after he had it home it started throwing engine codes.

We tracked it down to a ripped intake boot after the MAF. We thought we fixed it, we didn't.

The brake booster was bad too...

80K miles on this thing all all these problems we are chasing around.

I am not impressed with Subaru "reliability". He has been driving my E21 and my E30 more than that damn car in its first 2 months we owned it.

As I start to dig into this brand and this model (I am getting pretty knowledgeable about them now) there is a laundry list of things that fail on these cars without warning and at what I call low miles for a Jap car.

When I first test drove it I was impressed, thinking maybe I will look for one.

I am cured. It is no Toyota, that is for sure.

[vash]

Wolf..do you think she will go for the motor replacement? (maybe i missed it above, but i started scanning after Bey chimed in)

that vehicle cant be worth it to do a motor replacement no? $4k? maybe?

i wish her luck. they gave me a dodge truck of that same vintage when i was first hired. man, it was a gas hog!!

[fastfredracing]

I hate it when I give good honest auto advice , they do not take it and, then start to have problems . My buddy who is financially challenged , really hard on vehicles, and does zero maintenance , would not listen to me that a $2500.00 BMW was a bad move. I told him that he simply cannot afford maintenance
One year later, it sits in his yard broken down. Ive fixed it twice for free

[RANDY P]

Engine with low hot pressure is noisy, seems to run hot and flickers dummy light on dash. They also don't run as strong as they should.

A low pressure situation would've been noticed simply by driving it for a bit.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by vash

Wolf..do you think she will go for the motor replacement? (maybe i missed it above, but i started scanning after Bey chimed in)

that vehicle cant be worth it to do a motor replacement no? $4k? maybe?

i wish her luck. they gave me a dodge truck of that same vintage when i was first hired. man, it was a gas hog!!

If it was otherwise clean and straight I'd go the junkyard engine route and learn my lesson on buying cars.

No use throwing good money after bad ditching the truck busted.

rjp

[Scott Douglas]

I've got just what that truck needs:

[masraum]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

If it was otherwise clean and straight I'd go the junkyard engine route and learn my lesson on buying cars.

No use throwing good money after bad ditching the truck busted.

rjp

Right, lots of folks would sell a vehicle like that for pennies and then someone with some time and skill and not a lot of money will swap in a junkyard motor for more pennies and have a good vehicle. At least, that's how it would work around here. Most likely it would be someone Hispanic who would buy it and fix it up.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

If it was otherwise clean and straight I'd go the junkyard engine route

Same here. Get as cheap a boneyard engine as you can find. Pop it in... and move it down the road.

[Chocaholic]

Charitable donation. Take a nice deduction and start over.

[fastfredracing]

If that is a 4.7, they are really hard to come by used , and pretty expensive . Last time I checked anyhow .