an electrical question

Rtrorkt · 07-31-2019, 07:47 AM

have a circuit protected by a ground fault outlet. I have my outdoor lights and fountain pump on it. Lights go off and on using an analog time clock. I have the fountain on a z wave plug adapter.

Landscape lights are all LED and when the circuit switches on each night there is no issue. I try to work the pump, the ground fault kicks when the in rush load from the pump occurs. I am fairly certain the ground fault is a 15amp outlet.

Can anyone tell me what the issue might be? Do I up size the GF outlet to say 20amp. Pump runs fine when I reset the GF outlet after it has tripped. Thoughts?

peppy · 07-31-2019, 08:00 AM

Not an expert, but I think electric motors can trip GFI outlets. That's why refrigerators don't have to have them.

Going to a 20A GFI depends on the wire size and the amperage of the breaker.

dad911 · 07-31-2019, 08:11 AM

If it one of those cheap fountain pumps, try replacing it. There may be a reason it's tripping, like moisture in the case

Or test it on the bathroom GFI circuit and see it it trips that too.

john70t · 07-31-2019, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peppy

Not an expert, but I think electric motors can trip GFI outlets. That's why refrigerators don't have to have them.

A few years back I installed GFIs to the kitchen at mom's snowbird condo.
They worked fine for months after that.

What I didn't realize (or check) was that the fridge was series-wired to that last countertop outlet...
It shouldn't have been wired that way by today's electric code, I believe.
Microwave and hair driers also want their own separate breaker.

She left for the rest of the year and the GFI tripped at some point during that time.
And the house checker did not notice the smell.

When we returned, there were maggots and black puddles on the floor and the inside was black hell.
The fridge did not restart.
It was 'an experience'.

cabmandone · cabmandone's Garage

You'd have to check the supply wire size to determine if you could go up to a 20 amp. Generally you need at least 12/2 with ground for a 20 amp circuit. It sounds like the GFI is tripping with only the pump so it would seem there is an issue with the pump. It's my understanding that a GFCI doesn't protect against over current.

ossiblue · 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabmando

You'd have to check the supply wire size to determine if you could go up to a 20 amp. Generally you need at least 12/2 with ground for a 20 amp circuit. It sounds like the GFI is tripping with only the pump so it would seem there is an issue with the pump. It's my understanding that a GFCI doesn't protect against over current.

This is my understanding as well (bold.)

GFCI monitor amp differential between the HOT and NEUTRAL lines. If the amps drawn by the HOT is more than the "return" amps of the NEUTRAL, the GFCI trips because there is a "leakage" of current somewhere in the circuit.

I would first try the pump without the z wave adapter, just to eliminate some issue with that device. If the pump still trips the GCFI, replace the pump or double check the wiring connections for the pump. There seems to be an initial current leak when the pump is first started, but disappears when restarted.

Cajundaddy · Cajundaddy's Garage

Two possibilities. Either you have a fountain pump with some current leakage to ground or the GFCI has failed and is nuisance tripping. Changing the wire size or breaker will not solve the problem. 99% of the time it is a failed fountain pump so I would test for continuity between hot to ground on the pump wiring. Anything above OL (zero) is a grounded pump that needs replacing.

GH85Carrera · GH85Carrera's Garage

We have a small fountain in our front garden, and a large one in our Kio pond for the waterfall for aeration of the water. Both are on GFI circuits. Different circuits, and they do pop on occasion. The one in front got to be overly sensitive, and I just replaced it. The one in back for the Koi pond is a 1/3 HP pump, 3000 GPH of Water @ 5 Ft. of Head pressure. It runs 24/7/365. The GFI has tripped, but once was from ants getting into the electrical box in the garden area, and once was after 10 inches of rain in 24 hours.

So GFI works for electric motors just fine, but they do not cycle on on off like a fridge.

ledhedsymbols · 08-01-2019, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Two possibilities. Either you have a fountain pump with some current leakage to ground or the GFCI has failed and is nuisance tripping. Changing the wire size or breaker will not solve the problem. 99% of the time it is a failed fountain pump so I would test for continuity between hot to ground on the pump wiring. Anything above OL (zero) is a grounded pump that needs replacing.

Bingo

If the pump tests out, then consider the GFCI recep might be getting soft. It's most likely doing it's job measuring current delta between hot and neutral.

Rtrorkt · 08-03-2019, 08:43 AM

Thanks to all who answered. Was forced to put a new pump in (long story) and did so with a high quality fountain pump. There is an in ground connection between the pump wiring and the wire I ran to the outlet. Will check that to be sure the connections are tight. I will get the continuity tested.

Again, thank you all for the considered responses

dad911 · 08-03-2019, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtrorkt

......... There is an in ground connection between the pump wiring and the wire I ran to the outlet..........