Squatters.... This house ain't big enuf' fer the both of us....and I WILL move into MY house if I must ;)...

When my tenants don't pay, the Sherriff will move their stuff out into the street after 3 days and lock them out. I have anything still there after a few days hauled away and get a judgement against the tenants to punish them, ruin any credit they may still have left and teach them a lesson...plus, you never know, some day they just might inherit some money/win the lottery. No wonder rents are high in CA.

Squatters are not the reason why rents are high flint

Squatters are in Venice and in Compton and the rents I’m sure are what you would expect given the market forces at work, such as supply, demand and value

Same in NYC

It's not his house yet, legally speaking.
It's still the "brothers" and his "room mates" until Probate updates the deed/property interest transfer.

Just a thought.. and not sure if accurate:
-As Trustee, you might be able to access the current utilities account with the Certificate of Death, trustee papers, etc, and be obligated to identify all occupants.
-If they have no signed lease or contract on record, he might be able to get a temporary restraining order.
-Then after the estate settles, they might be liable for utilities used in the interim.
-My guess is that the estate will probably be responsible for all but it's another angle to try.

In the meantime, you might be able to give 24/72 hour access notice and video the condition of everything..
An hour or two with a probate attorney with all questions would be money well spent. imo

While I imagine all the above is true, as a businessman faced with potential squatters/inability to evict tenants, I would have to keep rents high enough to cover the potential loss of at least 5 or 6 months of rent every couple of years vice the typical one month every couple of years I do for my properties.

I guess a smart burglar caught in the act should say "I'm not robbing the place, I'm living here now".

I wonder how those protracted evictions turn out. Surely, the grateful evictees do a little tidying up before leaving as thanks.

Old 60 Minutes piece re: a stolen painting. Mike Wallace interviews art thief:

Wallace: You're a thief.
thief: I'm not a thief
Wallace: Do you have the painting?
thief: yes
Wallace: Then you're a thief!
thief: I'm not a thief.
Wallace: How are you not a thief?
thief: they never asked me to return it.
Wallace: Never asked!? There has been an international man hunt for you! Where have you been?
thief: I've been on vacation.
Wallace: Vacation!? Where have you been on vacation?
thief: oh, various places.
Wallace: How long have you been on vacation?
thief: A few of years now.

I’m sure you and all landlords do but that is not the reason for high rental costs in highly desirable locations like coastal California or the tri-state area etc

Also keep in mind that the scenario you post is not a squatter situation. It’s a tenant who is in breach of contract with you by not paying rent

A squatter is someone with no written contract with the owner. Basically it a someone who walks into an empty house off the street and claims it for themself.

If the owner were around and cared, a simple 911 call to the cops would resolve the trespasser

This -squatter situation-happens exponentially more in the case of abandoned foreclosure homes rather than rental situations....key word is abandoned, whether intentionally or because of death doesn’t matter

I represent mortgagees and see this every single day. It’s a major issue especially considering the damage to the property that occurs by squatters....pipes fixtures appliances windows etc.....

“Squatters” are not something that plague your average landlord

One of my friend's daughter recently bought her first house. She qualified for the mortgage on her own, and set up the utilities in her name only, and she became a rightful home owner. She was dating a guy during this process. He lived there with her for a few weeks. She finally told him to hit the road, as he had not contributed any money to the costs. He wanted to stay. She called her dad first of course. He asked if he had his name on utilities, or any mail sent there. She said no.

They called the cops, and told him to leave now, or in a few minutes he gets a free ride to jail in handcuffs. He claimed he lived there. She denied it, and the cops asked if he had any proof. He had no bills or even a single piece of mail. She showed the cops her water and electric bill in her name only. She even had her deed ready for the cops.

The ex-boyfriend grabbed his clothes and toothbrush and left. The cops reminded him they had his name on a report, and they better not get called to the house because he is causing problems.

That is how it is supposed to work.

That is how how it works

The problem with squatters, or should I say the reason why squatters become a problem, is because the owner is nowhere to be found to allege a trespass violation.

It’s when a new owner, either through foreclosure sale or inheritance etc, comes into the situation that the squatter becomes an issue

A guest who stays too long is not a squatter and neither is a tenant who fails to pay. Very different than a squatter

The OP has squatters because.....the owner is no longer there to testify to the various rights of the people living there

Once he becomes an owner or person with authority to act as owner, he will have the rights he needs to evict the squatters...in NY you name those squatters as “John Doe” in your eviction papers

Rent is high because there are too many damn people here after those good jobs.

Oh yeah, there's rent control and retroactive rent. That means even if the old renter moves out, you are not to charge market rate but must charge the old existing rate with maybe a 3 or 4 % increase. I am not sure what the percentage is anymore. The laws have been changing on the increase.

When I lived in SF long ago, I remember some new city law that guaranteed tenants could stay after a sale, unless the new owner or relatives moved in for at least one or two years.

That may have changed and only local. idk.

There were quite a few buyers/LLs using that to kick people out, and some buzz about it.

After talking to the probate attorney I hired, I was given another law firm to address the eviction
problem. So.... now I have two different lawyers working on two different issues.
I am going to get raked over the coals financially but in the end I will get closure.

My advise to every person out there reading this post is:
I don't care how old you are, get a Living Trust, Will, Power of Attorney and Health directive.
If you don't then you will regret it.

Only the survivors regret the lack of the trust, or will and so on.

If it makes you feel any better NONE of these documents would have saved you any money or headache whatsoever regarding getting rid of squatters.

A power of attorney’s powers die when the person dies. The will would have made his intentions clear regarding appointment of an executor but you would still likely need to go through probate proceedings to get the letters testamentary, the trust I have no idea why you think that is relevant and likewise a health care directive is useless once your dead and good luck getting a hospital to abide by one anyway

Btw I’m not an estates attorney but I’m pretty sure if your appointed as an administrator you can charge the estate for the expenses you lay out. Ask your estate attorney about that

My understanding is that:
1). There was no will.
(but even then, Probate is always default to clear up any potential outstanding contingencies on estate)

2). OP is acting as Trustee for that estate, and with acting powers thereof.


(but I could have read this thread completely wrong...)

We agree on #1


#2, my understanding is he only just petitioned the court and therefore has no legal authority to do anything yet. I’m in NY so not sure about Cali but here without a will that appoints an executor, you have to petition the surrogates court to be appointed as an executor/administrator of the estate. I’m pretty sure that in Cali and probably anywhere, you have no power to act on behalf of the deceased without the courts granting such powers and evidencing same with a document usually called letters testamentary which you would use to show the bank in order to close bank accounts, transfer funds etc.....I’m certain that even with a will that could have appointed him as executor, OP would still need the surrogate to issue letters testamentary or whatever they are called in Cali. I could be wrong about how Cali does it. In any case, OP likely could handle the probable/surrogate court stuff pro se....probate/surrogate courts around the country are typically very familiar with unrepresented people who appear and are not sure what to do...and are tolerant and helpful in this regard

Can you not bring a legally owned gun into the house and force them out? What about the rights to protect your home/property?

You and some others here are confusing squatters with trespassers. Like I said above, a squatter is, generally speaking, a person with no ownership rights who walks into a vacant, abandoned home.......like the OP’s situation. Remember, it’s not the OP’s house. His brother abandoned the property by passing away and now a person is living there.

Even if OP becomes the owner, that is much different than already being an owner and having someone essentially break into your home

I was fortunate to actually have a talk with my attorney today.
Now remember you are not in California and any Hillbilly, redneck southern justice is gonna'
put you in jail. Sorry. I agree with all your common sense but common sense doesn't exist in
California.
All these moochers have rights and what we came up with is this;
With no landlord/tenant agreement and not ever paying my brother any rent, these people are not squatters. They are my deceased brother's friends that just happened to over extend the invite.
One option is I can shut off the electricity and natural gas.
They will suffer with no showers and can't cook, put up a clothes line... etc.
After a week or two, then (my lawyer suggested this) offer them a written letter offering a cash payout that they will leave and never come back.
Once that goes down, immediately change the locks.

About like I thought.

Did the attorney suggest informing the law of the situation, or would it be better to wait? They may depart when the lights and water go off.

I thought to be a squatter and claim those rights, improvements to or upkeep of the property have to be proven. Then again, it's California, I'm probably wrong.

There are now squatters in Austin, Texas. They are now squatting anywhere they like, hike and bike trail, sidewalks, pedestrian bridges, in front of establishment, etc.. Dueces everywhere. Glad I moved. Still work around the city however.

Squatters is too nice a term to describe those people in the O.P. thread. They were hoping to fly under the radar, simple free-loaders. Some squatters, believe it or not, have done good things for neighborhoods and decrepit buildings, - properly repairing, restoring and occupying forgotten properties, good squatters exists, sure it's rare, but there are cases. Though most squatters will usually hasten the demise of any building, knowing this there are even landlords who encourage squatters to 'live' in properties they wanted to develop but were t allowed to, so they use squatters to get back at a neighborhood association etc. a huge mess ensues... it gets ugly.
Best of luck to O.P. glad he will get his former brothers house which is rightfully his. The whole thing must be very difficult, it was upsetting just to read about the ordeal.

I think we have some squatters at the (formerly-) vacant house at the end of my block. Some old lady supposedly owns it, as well as another house in which she lives. I haven't seen her live in it for the 10 years I've been in my house. But we have this exploding homeless problem here in LA, and I think squatters have moved in. Over the past few months I'll see a gate open, or hear someone moving about in the yard. No car parked in front, so it doesn't seem like a caretaker is the soirce. Today the front door was cracked ajar when I walked my dog this evening.

Seems good strategy (in these unusually tolerant cities) to watch the obituaries and move into any temporarily vacant house left by a death. Live there free until the new owner pays you to move. Then go to the next one (or maybe run the gig at multiple homes for additional income streams). Pretty good gig.

Hmmm. Well, I’ve been an attorney a long time and no lease and not paying is practically the very definition of squatter. And, I evict squatters for banks as part of the work I do, every day

In NY your plan would likely result in the squatters calling the utility companies. The utilities would be turned on and the financial charges for same would just accrue and eventually if unpaid, become a lien on the property. Not a huge deal but defeats your plan. Cali is probably just as squatter friendly as NY

I’m not against trying your plan though. I’m more of a do as I say not as I do sorta guy if you know what I mean

We have never paid anyone to move. We evict them and the sherif removes them and their junk

I guess it’s a nice gig if you like being homeless.

Whenever I’m working to remove squatters I can’t help but thinking back to my favorite film, Midnight Cowboy. Ratzo’s little flat was sorta cozy

Here are some examples of 'good squatters'....who turn 'unused space' into community garden 'improvements'...but got zapped by the system:
(your problem occupants do not qualify as such)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147053/Keen-gardener-spent-5-000-turning-derelict-land-block-flats-urban-oasis-ordered-rip-didn-t-permission.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/us/white-women-calling-police-black-men.html
https://www.pe.com/2013/08/16/san-jacinto-community-garden-removal-ordered/

Being in California, I wouldn't mess with the utilities or harass them without due (legal) notice.
Do this carefully.

I don't think your particular attorney is correct, unless you are willing to risk additional compounding legal fees, depending on the occupants.
Reconsider other attorneys. It is an emotional time.
(they might be very experienced with the system and are 'disadvantaged' in some way...new kids included)
It is California.

Unless you are guaranteed a local judge sympathetic to owners, don't mess with the utilities!

In the end...it is a mostly free house probably to the next of kin, and a time to wrap up that part of your life.
Fixing up to sell will be your next challenge.
Take the higher route.

SWAT the address a couple times, the cops might come after you, but most of the time they figure it out and play along more than twice, nothing to lose but more of your sanity.

Suggestion; say a couple of AR-15's are being built there illegally

I had a situation like this happen to a cousin of mine.

Locked up on federal charges. Couldn't post Bail for 18 months. Charges were dropped and he went home. His home was full of prostitutes and drug users. He resorted to violence, and they all left. Ended up selling his house a little later.

Google voice with red dot Indian voice

Be SURE it is well insured before taking any action against the people in there.

If they damage it, you will want insurance...

I am going to take the High Road and do what my Lawyers suggest. I don't want to be the bad guy in a liberal Judges decision.
Probate will be from seven months to a year. Bottom line... these parasites might be there for a long time.

If I become the bad guy in the California Court by turning off utilities, these worthless
leeches will get sympathy. Water and garbage can't be turned off anyway. They just hold the
home owner hostage for all the back payments and keep the utilities on.
On a humorous note.... The one that my sister from Missouri belted and threw off the property three weeks ago has parked a car right in the middle of my deceased brother's driveway and just left it there. I know she wants me to have it towed and then claim some illegal crap.
Crazy man but I need to just let it roll until the legal stuff works for me and my dad.

Thanks for the input everyone but this isn't going to end for a long, long time.

good point zeke - maybe get title, then insurance, then start getting them out

ASAP:
Try to get appointed Trustee for the estate by a judge which will get you the needed authority.
Try to identify all present occupants and collect your brother's belongings (the paperwork). Document this with a sheriff present.
Document existing condition of property. Everything.
Get all bills and try find out about any outstanding debts brother may still have.
Try to get the probate process expedited, due to your own limited time and money and plans, or any other special circumstances.

Ain't that a burn? Trying to do the right thing, is sometimes, more costly than the penalties that would come from doing it illegally . The good guy finishes last .
You will probably end up with a 10k water bill, and damages to boot .
You have one tool left in your tool box. Give them money . It will be cheaper in the long run . Pay for your piece of mind, and get your brothers property back.
I've lured bad tenants out with cash before . I have also taken the doors off, threatened them, stalked them, cut power etc. We went in with a crew of guys one night, loaded up all this womans stuff, and asked here where she wanted it to go. All the while , she is crying , screaming and pleading . 6 months late on rent, and just destroying the place . 9 freaking cats.
We paid for one month at the storage unit, and left it all there . Packed it in nicely, and pulled out . . Took her cats and all .
I do it by the book now though .

Rapewta,

Now, they have access to free lawyer service. Those fooking liberal lawyers hate owners with a passion. yeah, all fee to screw you in CA. So be aware of that. Rent control bill was just signed by our dumb fook Gov Newsome. I have to read up on that more but its aint looking good for us. Don't do anything stupid and play by the book because it will come back and haunt ya.

When you a evict a tenant, doesn't matter is they go peacefully or hog tied and carried out by sheriffs, if they leave their stuff behind, even junk, you must hold it in storage for 30 days (or was it 60?). Yep more money. They can bite you in the ass if you don't so it. Be careful with all those little things.

>Being in California, I wouldn't mess with the utilities or harass them without due (legal) notice.

Where are the bills coming to ? Who's paying them ? Can you get them rerouted to you? If nobody pays them, the utilities will shut down pretty quick without you actively doing anything illegal. Or if you have power over your brother's accounts, you can suspend auto-payments for everything...

Feeling out the situation might be a first step.
Or it could show his hand. idk.

According to OP there are five squatters involved..
Any one could have 'special needs'.
That could lead to extensive bureaucracy and attorney fee$.

It could turn out the brother signed lease documents with them.
It could turn out they are legitimate.
Brother's estate. Brother's choich.
I'm just just putting out potential complications.

I knew someone in California who was subletting a nice house for a reasonable price, from someone renting from an old lady, who died. The estate was being managed by a faceless bank. The friend was in the process of moving overseas and considering subletting it again. The friend was asking $14K to relinquish her guaranteed month-to-month status. Considering local RE values, it would have been a small price to pay for the estate (which was significant) and while the market was hot. Consider what some Realtors(tm) make for an hour's worth of paperwork from a single home sale. Some lazy chair sitter at the bank might have even signed off on it as a cost of business. But this has nothing to do with the OP's situation.