When your idol is no longer an idol

[herr_oberst]

I guess I don't think I've had a drag racing idol in a while. I guess Ron Capps would be as close as I come these days, or Jack Beckman. I barely know who Torrance is.
However, Back In My Day™....I'm pretty sure that if you were part of the NHRA pro circuit you probably had better know how to use your fists to ease the tension that might happen on the track - it just wasn't as public as it is now...and those fellas (and Shirley) had to be hard to get through a championship season on the road.

[sammyg2]

Anyone remember Whit Bazemore? Prolly not LOL.
I was glad to see him gone.

[herr_oberst]

Yeah, I was glad to see Baze lose his ride, too, and watch him fail as an announcer, but sadly, we never hear about some of the real giants anymore either, like Gary Scelzi or Larry Dixon or Darrel Gwynn.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

Yeah, I was glad to see Baze lose his ride, too, and watch him fail as an announcer, but sadly, we never hear about some of the real giants anymore either, like Gary Scelzi or Larry Dixon or Darrel Gwynn.

Dixon has a top fuel rail with a back seat. He takes it to IHRA tracks and for a fee you can ride down the track in it. He wanted to do it at NHRA tracks but they will not let him. Darrel Gwynn can be seen at Barret Jackson auctions doing what he can to raise money to get disabled folks some help.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

Yeah, I was glad to see Baze lose his ride, too, and watch him fail as an announcer, but sadly, we never hear about some of the real giants anymore either, like Gary Scelzi or Larry Dixon or Darrel Gwynn.

Scelzi was awesome but I heard it often took several takes until they could get one from him that didn't need bleeping

[Jeff Higgins]

I don't follow the sport like I used to, so I'm kinda wondering - what exactly did Larry Dixon do to (apparently) piss everyone off, lose his ride, and wind up in Australia?

And, I thought Gary Scelzi was still driving? Coulda swore I saw him this year at our Northwest Nats. When Force won, they mentioned that there was only one active driver that is older - Gary Scelzi. I think that's what I heard...

And, what about Bazemore? He always seemed very competitive. Was he just a prick, or what?

[herr_oberst]

Whit was a just an obstinate jerk, (In My Opinion™). Definitely the opposite of a Capps or Scelzi. He played a pretty good foil to Force and Austin Coil, the bad blood boiled to the point that it became a heated rivalry between all of the Force drivers against Bazemore. And because I liked Force (and Coil) and Densham (and Mike Neff and Eric Medlin), well, Baze became a distraction. I'm not the only one who felt that way.

I don't know exactly what happened to Dixon, but after years of success with Prudhomme, he left the team (and The Snake was NOT happy) to go over to Al-Anabi, probably chasing huge money. After he left that team, he sort of floated around trying to find a decent ride. Best I can decipher, his leaving the Snake and the slow decline of the NHRA sort of coincided, and when the big money from the likes of Al Anabi or US Smokeless or Miller or Budweiser started to dry up, he was left standing when the music stopped.

I think you might have been thinking of Gary Densham? I'm not sure if he's older than Force, but he's definitely up there! The only other older driver I can think of is Chris Karamasines...but he still drives T/F

-But if Scelzi is still driving, well I'm very happy!

Here's a blast from the past. I went to the Pacific Northwest Nationals back in 1993, where Tommy Johnson Jr won his first Top Fuel national event after a rain delay. They finished the semis just before curfew (11pm those days), and I hung around late with Tommy and the crew as they thrashed on the car for the next day's final. Tommy was a great guy, and his sister, who was also racing sportsman or something, was there too. They were really really excited and it was fun to just watch and listen. I was stoked when they won. This year, 26 years later, I shook his hand and told him about that night (he's in FC now). Shockingly, he didn't remember me, but he sure remembered all about that night.

I've raced in both NHRA and SCCA, and in my experience, racers like everyone else in sports are all different. Some are cool, some are jerks, and most are just normal. Racers may be a bit more intense and competitive, as befits someone willing to take the risks involved, but that's it.

My current faves are TJ, Tim Wilkerson (humble, class act), Antron Brown (same), Leah Pritchett (obvious) , and of course the Forces, dad and daughter.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

Whit was a just an obstinate jerk, (In My Opinion™). Definitely the opposite of a Capps or Scelzi. He played a pretty good foil to Force and Austin Coil, the bad blood boiled to the point that it became a heated rivalry between all of the Force drivers against Bazemore. And because I liked Force (and Coil) and Densham (and Mike Neff and Eric Medlin), well, Baze became a distraction. I'm not the only one who felt that way.

I don't know exactly what happened to Dixon, but after years of success with Prudhomme, he left the team (and The Snake was NOT happy) to go over to Al-Anabi, probably chasing huge money. After he left that team, he sort of floated around trying to find a decent ride. Best I can decipher, his leaving the Snake and the slow decline of the NHRA sort of coincided, and when the big money from the likes of Al Anabi or US Smokeless or Miller or Budweiser started to dry up, he was left standing when the music stopped.

I think you might have been thinking of Gary Densham? I'm not sure if he's older than Force, but he's definitely up there! The only other older driver I can think of is Chris Karamasines...but he still drives T/F

-But if Scelzi is still driving, well I'm very happy!

Yes - you are right, I'm thinking of Gary Densham. I had the wrong Gary. Both good guys.

And yeah, that whole Al Anabi debacle seemed to really hurt the sport. Spoiled rich son of a sheik, wasn't it? Came in with all of his oil money and panicked and left as soon as there was the slightest blip on his portfolio. I heard there were lots of burned bridges all the way through the crew chief and mechanic ranks as well, as they all chased the big buck$.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

Here's a blast from the past. I went to the Pacific Northwest Nationals back in 1993, where Tommy Johnson Jr won his first Top Fuel national event after a rain delay. They finished the semis just before curfew (11pm those days), and I hung around late with Tommy and the crew as they thrashed on the car for the next day's final. Tommy was a great guy, and his sister, who was also racing sportsman or something, was there too. They were really really excited and it was fun to just watch and listen. I was stoked when they won. This year, 26 years later, I shook his hand and told him about that night (he's in FC now). Shockingly, he didn't remember me, but he sure remembered all about that night.

I've raced in both NHRA and SCCA, and in my experience, racers like everyone else in sports are all different. Some are cool, some are jerks, and most are just normal. Racers may be a bit more intense and competitive, as befits someone willing to take the risks involved, but that's it.

My current faves are TJ, Tim Wilkerson (humble, class act), Antron Brown (same), Leah Pritchett (obvious) , and of course the Forces, dad and daughter.

I'm a huge fan of Antron Brown. Great "kid", although he's really not a kid anymore. I spent a very pleasant Friday morning with him at the Northwest Nats many years ago, when he was brand new to top fuel. Very humble guy, polite almost to a fault. And, at the time, still in wide-eyed disbelief that he was really there. Great guy.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Yes - you are right, I'm thinking of Gary Densham. I had the wrong Gary. Both good guys.

And yeah, that whole Al Anabi debacle seemed to really hurt the sport. Spoiled rich son of a sheik, wasn't it? Came in with all of his oil money and panicked and left as soon as there was the slightest blip on his portfolio. I heard there were lots of burned bridges all the way through the crew chief and mechanic ranks as well, as they all chased the big buck$.

I always liked Densham, his son is driving funny car now and I hope he does well.

At al Anabi, Dixon claimed that he deserved be the #1 driver and that he wasn't getting the best parts or crew. His complaining didn't sit well with Alan or the boss man so he had to go.

The reason he left the snake was because the US smokeless tobacco sponsorship was going away and the shake ( sp. Sheikh) was offering him big bux. So he bought out his contract from prudhomme and bailed.
But him leaving Al Anabi eventually opened the door for a friend who won the world championship a couple years later. Silver lining. Technically he replaced Del but still

..... Not too good for Larry tho. He threw away a career because no one else would hire him and he couldn't raise his own sponsor $$$$$

I never did find out fer sure why Del left Al Anabi. Maybe he just wanted to go out on top? His shop is only a couple miles from the house, I even saw him in a supermarket once.

the shake didn't want to bail on the NHRA but he was having waaay too much fun in the US. Didn't look right.
So his dad threatened to cut him off completely if he didn't come home and straighten up.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I'm a huge fan of Antron Brown. Great "kid", although he's really not a kid anymore. I spent a very pleasant Friday morning with him at the Northwest Nats many years ago, when he was brand new to top fuel. Very humble guy, polite almost to a fault. And, at the time, still in wide-eyed disbelief that he was really there. Great guy.

I don't know Antron but know people who do, never heard anything negative about him.
Antron, Leah pritchett, and Shawn Langdon all raced in the junior drags and learned to cut a quick light, they're still some of the best out there on the tree.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I'm a huge fan of Antron Brown. Great "kid", although he's really not a kid anymore. I spent a very pleasant Friday morning with him at the Northwest Nats many years ago, when he was brand new to top fuel. Very humble guy, polite almost to a fault. And, at the time, still in wide-eyed disbelief that he was really there. Great guy.

I sometimes follow NHRA or Indycar racing circuses like Deadheads used to follow the band. In 2009 I saw Antron win at Denver, then again at Seattle before wrapping up the Western Swing with a sweep in Sonoma. Talked to him during the Seattle race, and he was such a cool, humble guy, yakking away to fans while he mixed the 90/10 for the run. As always, real tough guys never talk about how badass they are. They just prove it when the lights flash.

[Rodney Nelson]

What does it mean that he "Deep-Staged"?

Sorry, I do not know anything about drag racing... seems like I am missing out.

Originally Posted by Rodney Nelson

What does it mean that he "Deep-Staged"?

Sorry, I do not know anything about drag racing... seems like I am missing out.

You stage a dragster by rolling the car forward until the front tires break a light beam running 90 degrees across the starting line. That is called "Pre-staging," and it illuminates the Pre-stage light on the christmas tree. Twelve inches from the Pre-stage beam is the Stage beam. Typically, the driver rolls the car forward just far enough to break that second beam across the starting line. At that point, the car is Staged (ready to go), the Stage light illuminates on the tree, and then the starter manually initiates the starting lights after he checks that it is safe to launch the cars.

Usually, both cars do the sequence above independently at their own pace, and each guy waits for the other guy to pre and stage before proceeding to the next step. That's called courtesy staging. Sometimes, though, a guy jumps right through from pre to stage without waiting, and that pisses some people off.

Deep staging happens when the driver continues through the pre stage, then through the stage beam, then continues to roll forward far enough that the back edge of the tire no longer covers up the pre-stage beam. This causes the pre light to flicker off. Sometimes, this additional action on the starting line (each guy can see the other's light on the tree), screws up the concentration of the other guy. That pisses some people off, apparently some enough to sucker punch their competitor. In fuel cars, it's rarely done on purpose. Those guys are trying to ride the fastest accelerating device on the planet, holding back 15,000 hp at the line, trying to cut a good light. Stuff happens. Deep staging a fuel car is almost always not intentional.

Deep staging is not against the rules, but in sportsman racing, we had to write DEEP on the window in shoe polish. People usually do it to get a better (lower) reaction time, but it yields a worse (slower) elapsed time.

Your physics problem for the evening is to explain why that is so.

[Sooner or later]

Force deep stages a lot.

It can distract the ofher driver when they see the pre staged light go off.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Force deep stages a lot.

It can distract the ofher driver when they see the pre staged light go off.

Force does it enough that the other racers expect it from him. The way I see it, you do what you need to in order to cut a good light. Should not be a big deal. I tried it one night but was not comfortable with it. Could not find the right spot on the tree.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by Zeke

It's not hard to explain as the RT is counted from the time the front wheel passes by the staging beam and triggers a 3rd beam you didn't mention, the guard beam. Deep staging shortens the distance.

All of this talk about staging is interesting because it has nothing to do with the race itself. The stats are used in qualifying and for record keeping, but in the race itself it's always the first to cross the line regardless of RT, ET or trap speed. IOW, it's a drag race.

All else being equal the best reaction time will get you across the finish line first. I have never seen a third beam. When the second staging light gooes out, the et clock starts.

[Sooner or later]

They expect it from Force until he doesn't do it. It can be a mind game.

It is a game of inches. They even stagger the front wheels by a few inches to help them in the ligjts. Left wheelbase will be longer than the right wheelbase. Rules limit the amount.

You might be able to see it in this picture.

[sammyg2]

Now Torrence is claiming that Cameron called him the "N"word!

Looks like NHRA is quietly doing nothing in hopes it'll go away.

From the NHRA Rulebook:

1.3.1 Participant Conduct

Participants at events are expected, at all times to conduct themselves in a professional and non-disruptive manner consistent with good sportsmanship and NHRA’s role as a family-oriented sports organization with event suitable for attendance by all and, as to those events that are televised, suitable for unrestricted viewing by the general public. Any participant who, in the sole and absolute judgment of NHRA (1) verbally or physically threatens another person; (2) uses vulgar or derogatory language; (3) engages in unsportsmanlike conduct; (4) engages in conduct detrimental to the sport of racing; (5) otherwise creates a condition or circumstance that is unsafe, unfair, or out of order; (6) is not honest and truthful in his or her dealings with NHRA, including without limitation making a false statement or creating, submitting or using a false writing or document; or (7) otherwise violates any NHRA rule, regulation or agreement, shall have violated this rule regarding participant conduct.