Drove a Tesla and I'm a bit sad.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I don’t think enthusiast ICE cars will ever be supplanted by electrics, at least not in my lifetime. Disposable appliance cars just might though.

Yep.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Your Dodge is as 'green' a vehicle as they come, well done for keeping it going for so long.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

How many new EV's do you think it will outlast?

I get your point, but it doesn't apply here. While the Dodge may outlast my other vehicles in years it is already way behind in mileage. If I sold it, wrecked it or whatever I wouldn't replace it with another vehicle, so it's not saving anything there. It sits most of the time - yes zero emissions (except for evaporation) but also zero utility. I drive it when I'm in the mood to, maybe 1000 miles a year. I drive the Volt when I want to get somewhere, 12,000 miles a year.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Your Dodge is as 'green' a vehicle as they come, well done for keeping it going for so long

How many new EV's do you think it will outlast?

It's the throw away society and I want a new ..... that we live in that is causing all the problems not cars

Here's a balanced study, IMO, of the lifetime cost of these disposable EVs ...

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change



However, I don't think they took into account the real life 150000 km "lifetime" in their calculations.

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/buying-an-electric-car-for-a-cold-climate-double-down-on-range/

What We Found

The Nissan Leaf (with its base 40 kWh battery; a longer range version is set to go on sale later this year, Nissan has said) has an Environmental Protection Agency-estimated 151-mile range. At the end of our 64-mile drive, the predicted range left was only 10 miles. Using the advertised range, the car should have traveled 141 miles before it was left with only 10. That’s more than double the anticipated loss in range.
The Tesla Model 3 has an EPA-estimated 310-mile range. At the end of that same 64 mile drive, it indicated there were 189 miles of predicted range. Put another way, the Model 3 used 121 miles worth of range in only 64 miles. That’s almost double the anticipated loss.

[RWebb]

Wait!

Is your 1947 Dodge a PowerWagon???

If so, PICS

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by pmax

Here's a balanced study, IMO, of the lifetime cost of these disposable EVs ...

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change



However, I don't think they took into account the real life 150000 km "lifetime" in their calculations.

Are you sure it's a balanced study as I could not find a comparison taking into account the CO2 required for recycling at the end of life of an EV compared to ICE

Think if this were taken into account the graphs would look very different

I should be beating the EV drum as I'm working on the new technology which pays my bills but I just can't, sorry

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Are you sure it's a balanced study as I could not find a comparison taking into account the CO2 required for recycling at the end of life of an EV compared to ICE

Think if this were taken into account the graphs would look very different

I should be beating the EV drum as I'm working on the new technology which pays my bills but I just can't, sorry

Good point. The recycling also emphasizes the fact that the true useful lifetime of these batteries, currently, is 150000km (or less in real life conditions), which is low compared with an ICE vehicle. I believe the authors assume both expire after 150Km which is another source of bias in the comparison.

However, the authors are quite clear about the methodology used, a breath of fresh air compared to many other studies of this kind.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Wait!

Is your 1947 Dodge a PowerWagon???

If so, PICS

No, it's a WD-15 (3/4 ton pickup).



Sorry to disappoint.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by pmax

Good point. The recycling also emphasizes the fact that the true useful lifetime of these batteries, currently, is 150000km (or less in real life conditions), which is low compared with an ICE vehicle. I believe the authors assume both expire after 150Km which is another source of bias in the comparison.

However, the authors are quite clear about the methodology used, a breath of fresh air compared to many other studies of this kind.

Agree clarity is what is needed

Personally I think the world has got ahead of itself and there should be a couple of decades of transition with a hybrid era before all electric

My feeling is there will be a forced hybrid era as the infrastructure is decades away from supporting a full electric transport

In the UK it wasn't very long ago diesel cars were seen as the savior now they are the work of the devil and sales of new diesel cars have plummeted. Would not surprise me if EV's go through the same cycle

[brainz01]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

No, it's a WD-15 (3/4 ton pickup).







Sorry to disappoint.

Cool truck.

And all this time I thought you were just 25 iterations away from being a good water displacer/corrosion inhibiter and mis-applied lubricant.

[Sooner or later]

My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And now on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire where my
White-haired uncle waits
Jump to the ground as the turbo slows
To cross the borderline
Run like the wind as excitement shivers
Up and down my spine
But down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me
An old machine
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new
Has been his dearest dream
I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant Red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
We'll fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime
Wind
In my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge
Well-oiled leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware
Suddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air-car
Shoots towards me two lanes wide
Oh, I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chase
Ride like the wind
Straining the limits
Of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope
I've got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded
At the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle
At the fireside

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Your assumption that people who own and enjoy EVs all hate and want to eliminate ICEs is ridiculous.

I never said any such thing and you are being defensive. Should I say that environmental elitists (not speaking about any particular person) who take the attitude that if I don't switch to EV then I hate clean air ?

I am simply pointing to the misplaced good intentions from government which will create a nightmare for people who cannot get what they need from the EV as it is currently available.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I never said any such thing and you are being defensive. Should I say that environmental elitists (not speaking about any particular person) who take the attitude that if I don't switch to EV then I hate clean air ?

I am simply pointing to the misplaced good intentions from government which will create a nightmare for people who cannot get what they need from the EV as it is currently available.

You're making espresso all wrong

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by RWebb

You're making espresso all wrong

Says the poopyhead.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I never said any such thing and you are being defensive. Should I say that environmental elitists (not speaking about any particular person) who take the attitude that if I don't switch to EV then I hate clean air ?

I'm not one of them so don't expect me to answer for them.

[Por_sha911]

whatever

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Agree clarity is what is needed

Personally I think the world has got ahead of itself and there should be a couple of decades of transition with a hybrid era before all electric

My feeling is there will be a forced hybrid era as the infrastructure is decades away from supporting a full electric transport

In the UK it wasn't very long ago diesel cars were seen as the savior now they are the work of the devil and sales of new diesel cars have plummeted. Would not surprise me if EV's go through the same cycle

There appears to be consensus that the battery recycling business is way behind the curve.

The toxic brew chemical soup that the process produces and consumes is definitely not something I would want anywhere close to my backyard !