They would have a hard time getting them built today but since they are up and running it would be a waste to shut them down. They are also key to irrigation in the area.

pmax, the dams have to get permits renewed every 50/75 years - you can send in your comments

many smaller dams already have been completely removed, not just shut down - usually to protect fisheries stocks

the big BPA dams will go away eventually but in the meantime they provide a lot of power

and BTW the turbines at Bonneville can go from stopped to full power in just 10 minutes (that's form BPA directly) - this helps greatly with load balancing on the western grid, which will be more important as more PV and wind power are added

BPA is also going around pointing out that their major grid infrastructure is near major wind corridors and PV areas, making it very easy to tap right into the their grid

If only the fish has a say in it !

When the coal industry can be shut down for environmental concerns, why should hydro power be exempt ?

hydro is not exempt - re-read the above

Big Oil should prop up the environmentalists who want to knock down the dams, like the way GM funded Cesar Chavez. Only difference is that in that case, they were opening up a legal precedent. This would be more like slash and burn.

Nothing more than rubber stamping ....

if a dam can't be built today due to environmental factors, it shouldn't be permitted.

What’s wrong about that? You should not buy an interesting car?

Hey man, if that's what moves yer pecker, then go for it.

you are obviously ignorant of the permit reviews, and the fact that a number of dams have failed review and been removed

are you anti-hydro for some particular reason?

I agree with your 2nd point

Spare me the adhom attack. That the permitting process is highly political shouldn't be news to you or I or anyone of the regulars here ... Keystone pipeline is a good example.


Seems inconsistent to me to be pro-hydro and yet against the dams which are environmentally "unclean" due to the undeniable impact.

I'm all for removing many dams. But for low-head hydro where appropriate.

No free lunch and everything has some env'l impact, so you put it all together in the NEPA process with a range of alternatives for public comment, then pick one. If illegal the courts will block it.

Some say it takes too long; others say XX shouldn't be built at all.

You may be interested to know that a panel of scientists investigated whether removal of ALL the big dams on the Columbia and Snake rivers would 'save the salmon' - they found it would not do that alone. Enviro's couldn't believe it... but failed to show the scientists were wrong. It is a lot more complex than just dams.

Almost relevant to the discussion: - I saw two bumper stickers on a Tesla Model 3 yesterday (wasn't able to get a pic) and thought it funny enough to share here:

"Silent but Deadly"

"Loud Pipes Save Lives"

Oh, the irony...

That's kinda funny. Like saying Obama/Biden and Trump 2020. You're just gonna piss everyone off.

LOl! At least the message is consistent.

I asked wd15 this back on 1/22 but for some reason no one will answer my questions.

Those are good questions.

In Seattle the zoning changed a while back that eliminated ample parking for new apartments and such. (push to put everyone riding public unicorns I suppose)

Anyway, I'll take a crack at your question. The electric car won't need to park on the street, or in rural areas. The cars will drive themselves away to the nearest unicorn factory, where they will feed on rainbows and virtuous thoughts all night and return to pick up their virtuous owners in the morning.

Meanwhile, people with gas cars . . wait, what am I saying. Those will be made illegal for not being virtuous enough.

Ha ha - exactly! :D

If you’re looking for someone to argue that EVs are the answer to all our transportation problems you are in the wrong place. I believe everyone here who owns an EV also owns at least one ICE vehicle and I haven’t heard any of us call for the elimination of ICEs. Your assumption that people who own and enjoy EVs all hate and want to eliminate ICEs is ridiculous.

I have 5 registered ICE vehicles plus tractors and lawnmowers. The last thing I want is to have them outlawed. My 1947 Dodge is an environmentalist’s nightmare - its crankcase ventilation system is a road draft tube! I drive it regularly. Your fleet of vehicles is likely more politically correct than mine, so don’t ask me to answer your questions.

Your Dodge is as 'green' a vehicle as they come, well done for keeping it going for so long

How many new EV's do you think it will outlast?

It's the throw away society and I want a new ..... that we live in that is causing all the problems not cars

Holy ***** that's funny.

Yep.

Thanks!

I get your point, but it doesn't apply here. While the Dodge may outlast my other vehicles in years it is already way behind in mileage. If I sold it, wrecked it or whatever I wouldn't replace it with another vehicle, so it's not saving anything there. It sits most of the time - yes zero emissions (except for evaporation) but also zero utility. I drive it when I'm in the mood to, maybe 1000 miles a year. I drive the Volt when I want to get somewhere, 12,000 miles a year.

Here's a balanced study, IMO, of the lifetime cost of these disposable EVs ...

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1580069166.jpg

However, I don't think they took into account the real life 150000 km "lifetime" in their calculations.

Wait!

Is your 1947 Dodge a PowerWagon???

If so, PICS

Are you sure it's a balanced study as I could not find a comparison taking into account the CO2 required for recycling at the end of life of an EV compared to ICE

Think if this were taken into account the graphs would look very different

I should be beating the EV drum as I'm working on the new technology which pays my bills but I just can't, sorry :(

Good point. The recycling also emphasizes the fact that the true useful lifetime of these batteries, currently, is 150000km (or less in real life conditions), which is low compared with an ICE vehicle. I believe the authors assume both expire after 150Km which is another source of bias in the comparison.

However, the authors are quite clear about the methodology used, a breath of fresh air compared to many other studies of this kind.

No, it's a WD-15 (3/4 ton pickup).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1580075973.jpg

Sorry to disappoint.

Agree clarity is what is needed

Personally I think the world has got ahead of itself and there should be a couple of decades of transition with a hybrid era before all electric

My feeling is there will be a forced hybrid era as the infrastructure is decades away from supporting a full electric transport

In the UK it wasn't very long ago diesel cars were seen as the savior now they are the work of the devil and sales of new diesel cars have plummeted. Would not surprise me if EV's go through the same cycle

Cool truck.

And all this time I thought you were just 25 iterations away from being a good water displacer/corrosion inhibiter and mis-applied lubricant.

My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And now on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire where my
White-haired uncle waits
Jump to the ground as the turbo slows
To cross the borderline
Run like the wind as excitement shivers
Up and down my spine
But down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me
An old machine
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new
Has been his dearest dream
I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant Red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
We'll fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime
Wind
In my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge
Well-oiled leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware
Suddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air-car
Shoots towards me two lanes wide
Oh, I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chase
Ride like the wind
Straining the limits
Of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope
I've got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded
At the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle
At the fireside

I never said any such thing and you are being defensive. Should I say that environmental elitists (not speaking about any particular person) who take the attitude that if I don't switch to EV then I hate clean air ?

I am simply pointing to the misplaced good intentions from government which will create a nightmare for people who cannot get what they need from the EV as it is currently available.

You're making espresso all wrong

Says the poopyhead. :)

I'm not one of them so don't expect me to answer for them.

whatever

There appears to be consensus that the battery recycling business is way behind the curve.

The toxic brew chemical soup that the process produces and consumes is definitely not something I would want anywhere close to my backyard !