Drove a Tesla and I'm a bit sad.
 

While wooing my now wife years ago, I hurried from the racetrack to the church downtown for mandatory pre-wedding counseling. I had my vintage racebike strapped onto a carrier on the back of my old 4-Runner. I came late to the session smelling of gasoline. I had an issue with the Keihin carburators on that bike and had to borrow spares from other racers, which led to me being doused in gasoline when hurriedly changing them between races. I now think she was just being polite/feisty, but back then, she said that me smelling like gasoline was "sexy." She'd never say that now.

Before and since then, I've had numerous sporting vehicles; everything from a stout old BMW airhead and Porsche boxer, to high-strung, high maintenance Ducati sportbike and Ferrari. Those bikes are gone, but I still have the Porsche and Ferrari. Also have a couple older Alfa Spiders (one a race car), and couple indestructible 4X4s including Ford 7.3L Powerstroke diesel (to haul my race stuff) and an FJ40 Landcruiser. I've done my own maintenance and have built a few race engines and done engine swaps on bikes and cars. I feel comfortable both swinging wrenches and racing wheel to wheel.

Over the years, I've watched the emergence of the new electric cars with curiosity, glad that there is progress and choices, but unwilling to give up my cool cars and bikes with their jewel-like drivetrains. Then recently I drove my brother's Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor. At first I didn't want to like it. But man. It felt like alien technology. Maybe like when the Native Americans encountered the first European settlers and witnessed cast iron pans, muskets, and men on horses. Made me feel like the writing is on the wall. Reminded me a bit of when MP3s, digital cameras, smart phones, and flat panel TVs came on the scene for my generation. Every generation experiences this kind of technological advancement, if not sea change.

Now, I'm wondering how long I'll maintain my ICE vehicles until they'll inevitably need retrofitting to electric drivetrains. Like the Delorean in Back to the Future. I'm thinking long game; 15-20 years in the future (I joined this forum over 15 years ago, it goes by quick!). What am I going to do? Box up the engines and gas tanks and keep them in the basement? Sell them while they're worth something to fund the retrofit? I might never smell like gasoline again.

I dunno. I think efficiency of diesel will be the go to alternative compared electric.

Since we're talking shtf. I say horses and the shell of lariat truck.

In 15 or 20 years EVs will be hitting their stride. They will be more than competitive in cost and range. ICE vehicles will be gasping their last breath.

I don’t think enthusiast ICE cars will ever be supplanted by electrics, at least not in my lifetime. Disposable appliance cars just might though.

When electrics can weight the same or less, go 400 miles with all amenities, fill up in 5 minutes, and then continue on...

Can't believe that electrics will rely on the current battery technology. Things are developing too fast, getting better and better, quickly. Just in the last 15 years they have gone from NiCad to NiMH to LiIon/LiFeSO. What's next? Super-capacitors instead of batteries altogether? Regardless, electric motors will be the propulsion.

Electrics need a standards body to control costs.

They damn sure should have a standardized charging connection.

Betamax or VHS. Everyone is smarter than everyone else.

Don't be sad...
The motoring future looks promising and gas cars will be here for a while yet.

James makes some interesting points. Straight electric versus hydrogen fuel cell.

Cool stuff. :)

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Not enough coal to power all the “electric” cars if the ICE is banned...

Does this also apply to Texas (among others)? Just curious, because I've heard things.

Don't worry.

The future of the electrics are "cars" like these. It's already heading there given the free market dictates that bigger, faster, higher is better.

https://article.images.consumerrepor...side-blue-3-19

https://article.images.consumerrepor...-driving-11-19

What about the Taycan? or the next Tesla Roadster? With a "skateboard" chassis, what's to keep the electrics from looking like anything from a VW microbus to an exotic something or another? The Tesla truck is ridiculous, but also proves they do whatever they want. Better yet, why not just swap in electric crate motors and modular power packs into our classic cars?

There are no EV standards, let alone crate motors and power packs.
Even if there were, these drivetrains are 400/800V systems chock filled with specialized electronics and ECU's, unlikely your joe blow mechanics or even mom and pop pro shops can do much with them without messing something up.

And then there are these guys.

https://www.electricgt.com/

And they're not alone. More likely to pop up. I don't think it's that complicated. Electric motor, battery, power control. Not like you're managing stoichiometric ratios of air/fuel, computer controlled ignition (Motec?), dual plugging, head shaving, intake charge theory, exhaust tuning, oiling, cooling, boat-tailing, shuffle-pinning, counterbalancing, porting, polishing, etc. etc.

Look, I'm not going to abandon all my hard-earned motoring treasures. I'm just trying to reconcile them with the future. Hopefully avoid obsolescence by making them future-proof. Maybe even get a modern electric for the wife and kids someday in the future.

Good Question - I'll ask my neighbor with the Model A and see what he thinks

Why? If he's like 99% of Model A owners, he's probably closer to death than a future lack of access to gasoline.

Let's see if they and others develop something better than a souped up golf kart or one off racer. Battery longevity, thermal management, regeneration control etc are all system performance concerns managed by specialized software. The super HP and torque is no good if it kills the battery or power inverters shortly for example. Even Tesla had problems with their cars running full on for extended periods of time.

Not saying it can't be done but there's a crapload of system software written to run these cars and I just don't see that complexity mastered by a small time shop.

Battery tech is developing too fast?

c'mon. Energy densities of batteries (when you add all of the cooling and controls) have been stagnant over the decades. Just look at the 787... they wanted the lightest batteries they could get... the highest of high tech control systems and cooling wrapped up in a fire box and.... weighs just the same as if they used lead acid.

You can pretend that electric cars are all that, but reality will get in the way.

You want to accelerate hard? hope you don't care about range or longevity of the battery pack. Need a heater or AC? there goes range. Charging is cheap, and s l o w . . . But at least the car is expensive.

Glen, I'm no engineer, but I drove the damn car, in anger. And my brother, along with tens of thousands of other Tesla owners, commutes with it every day in L.A.; near as I/we can tell, it IS all that. When I got out of the car, I wasn't gleefully jumping up and down. I just shook my head, like, daaaang.

Anyway, I look forward to resurrecting this thread in 5-10 years!:)

Take one to PIR. See if it can do even 5 laps as quickly as your Alfa.

Or take one on a loop over the N. cascade hwy, Grand Coolee, down the Columbia gorge, Wenatchee and back over Steven's pass in a day. (not going to happen)

Battery tech has a Long way to go.

Look down in the bottom left corner...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...gy_density.svg

per Wikipedia

These cars are for commuting and running errands. 99% of which happens within the car's range. Travel and track driving are outliers. Except autocross, where the Model 3 has recently taken the championship in its class and been subsequently bumped up two whole classes for next year. As for energy density, shouldn't a tank of gas take the average car to the moon?

I don't see how the using of electricity is deemed "sustainable" when the production and storage of it is not.

I just don't think I will ever embrace the technology, I still plug CDs into my 16 year old Mustang car radio, and watch network TV, don't have any APPs on my phone, and have never had a "play list" or played with an Xbox, or Playstation. It would take an act of God for me to buy a Tesla.

I'm just a simple country boy who enjoys the outdoors, and mechanical things like tractors, and chainsaws.....man card fully in tact !

To me the real "sweet spot" for electric cars is the daily commuter. For most folks that is a 25 to 50 miles each way trip. Electric is perfect for that. It is the ultimate appliance vehicle. As my commute is 14 steps down the hall from the bedroom to my home office I have no need whatsoever for an electric car.

The ICE vehicles will be around a long time I predict. At least to the end of my driving life. Hopefully by the time I am too old to drive myself we will have truly autonomous cars that we will not own. Just punch a button on my phone and a car shows up, takes me where I need to go. No need for a garage, no need for the cost of a car, insurance, and all the other expenses.

For now, I will continue to drive my 35 year old 911 at the autocross, and on long road trips. I realize I am an old geezer but there is nothing else like the simple smell of sitting in my 911. Leather seats and the carpet, oil and old car. I love that smell, and I love the music of the flat 6. I can't imagine how boring it would be to listen to the hum of the tires as the only sound. Yea, I listen to music but the sound of the engine is the real music. Even after a 12 hour drive I love it.

Collectors like the Jay Lenos of the future will still have steam power, electric, and ICE engines collections. Jay has an electric car that is over 100 years old.

If I could convert to Natural Gas for cheap, I would love to do that to the El Camino. Hook up at home each night and always leave home with a full tank of dirt cheap CNG, if it runs low, switch back to the gasoline power. I looked into it and it was thousands of dollars to do it. Not worth it at all.

That does not appear to be correct.

We would need 25% more electricity to replace every car in the US with an electric car. In most parts of the US, the lowest electric loads are at night when most people would charge their car so the excess capacity at night could be used to charge cars. Obviously there would need to be some increase in capacity but no where near the 25% additional power needed. Plus, plugged in cars could act as a grid stabilizer (battery bank) when more renewable capacity is added.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1579705441.jpg

That is an ideal situation guess.

Now come back to the real world. Imagine a hot July day. Right now, the electric grid struggles to keep up with demand for just the AC used for homes and offices, with all the plants running at max. Add in the millions of cars needing to recharge. Your chart does not even mention the mega millions of 18 wheel tractor trucks that move the goods around. They suck up a lot of diesel. And lots of people get gasoline during the day every day 365 days out of the year. They can't all shift to night time. We have to build for the peak demand or the grid crashes. Many people live in apartments. They will have to charge up at the office, or in the day time.

We are going to need way more than 25% more eletricity. And look how many Gigawatts the US makes every day. Add 50% to that. Lots of new plants will be needed. None of them are built quickly or cheaply.

I would love to see the figures on how much gasoline and diesel is consumed every year right now. How much electricity does that require to replace. To move a 4,000 pound vehicle around at highway speeds requires a lot of energy. It can come from electricity or gasoline or whatever.

Interesting anecdote: my dad just built a new garage and was required by code to install an electric car charging station. I wonder whose lobbying got that into the building code... This is in San Joaquin County - not exactly a tree-hugging hotbed of liberals

Sad code ^ It's like requiring Betamax players if adding on media room.
LOL, right!

Clearly the chart shows you need liquid Hydrogen for that.

Or maybe with all the battery progress.... :rolleyes:

Indeed. Though i wouldn't be so kind as to call it a 'guess'. It's either child-like ignorance or intentional misdirection.

The issue we face is capacity. And THAT is crazy expensive to get.

And lastly: If the sweet spot for E cars is commuting on busy roads to stores and jobs then why on earth wouldn't we be pushing for more public transportation?

Has to be way more efficient.

The 'sweet spot' for e cars doesn't exist. It is already taken by buses/trains.

This makes me sad, did he have to put solar panels on the roof?

Next phase is a converter for quick-charging tools and equipment? Run welders? Anything needing high voltage.
Make lemonade from lemons?

idk what the upside to that is.
Start an app for travelers and build a separate B&B resting space w/bed toilet wifi and fridge.
Cottage industry.
(but of course they will ban those just as soon as they begin)

He did not, but all new residential construction in that county requires it, so it's probably just a matter of time.

I have mostly never found this to be true from a personal use level, except for large cities where I've taken subways. Generally public transportation in almost all places I've seen in the US is inefficient. The stops are nowhere close to destinations people want to go, and the time to use it makes it too time consuming to get from one place to another. Some of the exceptions I've seen are commuter busses going from outlying areas to down town areas and systems in some foreign countries. The bus systems in some foreign countries I've used go up and down the streets. You get on one bus in the direction you want, & change direction by getting on another. In the US, bus routes are so circuitous, they're too inefficient and time consuming and don't support trolley and train systems well. I've never been able to figure out why most are designed the way they are. I'm planning on most likely getting an EV for my wife & me for everyday commuting, shopping, & errand use. At this point, that's exactly the best use for it. If EV's become the norm for the future, I think there will be a huge amount of adjustments necessary in the support systems at the next decade mark.

My son (who lives in Alabama) bought a Model 3 right when they came out (he's one of the ones who put in a deposit) and has a lot of miles on it (over 25k). And he drives it hard. He's on his second set of tires already. Astounding car. I had the same "alien technology" feeling when I rode in it. The performance is undeniable. And...the range is perfectly usable. He drives up here to Knoxville often (>200 miles) on one charge - regardless of the weather, etc. I think his range is close to 300 miles. When he gets here, we drive over to the local Target (to the charging station) and walk the 200 feet to O'Charley's, drink two beers and it's fully charged.

For anyone who hasn't been in a Tesla - don't be too quick to judge. They are impressive.

I'll admit that there is room for improvement, but I am sold on the future of electric cars. I watched a video comparison of the Taycan vs the Tesla Model S (?) and the Taycan accelerated faster and handled better. If Porsche could put an electric drivetrain in a Cayman and sell them for $60k, they would be a massive hit.

Not hardly.

Public transportation is ideal for large urban cities, no question, no argument. That is only 1% or so of the land area in the USA.

One of the local reporters decided to try public transportation compared to him driving a car. Instead of a 15 minute car trip he had to walk almost a mile to get to and from the bus stops, and it took 1.5 hours to make the same trip, and he works in downtown OKC.

A city like Oklahoma City metro area is over 1,200 sq miles and a little over one million people. It is easy to drive 75 miles to get to a destination and never leave the city area. There simply is no way to do it with public transportation.

Back when I still I commuted the first three miles of my trip was often done without seeing any other moving cars, and I live in the city!

My commute is 16 miles. I would have to drive 13 miles to get to a spot for a bus and there are o trains available.

A Model S would work for my commute just fine though (the Model 3 is just too ugly, even more so on the inside) but it wouldn't replace any of our current vehicles since we take a lot of road trips and I wouldn't put up with having to route to where superchargers are. Or, we would rent a vehicle for road trips.