Kobe...

[flipper35]

Flying Magazine had an informative article on the NTSB investigation so far. Pilot was IFR rated but the aircraft was not. It also sounds like he was descending at 2000ft/min which is odd unless there was a mechanical failure.

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news/bryant-helicopter-ntsb-statement/

[KNS]

If he was descending at 2000 fpm spatial disorientation had gotten the best of him and he had already lost it. He was most likely way in over his head by that time and fighting to regain control.

He pops out of the bottom of the clouds at a high rate of speed (and most likely high angle of bank) and there isn't enough time to recover as the ground is coming up too fast.

Classic scenario, unfortunately.

[javadog]

From the orientation of the debris field in relation to the hill, I'd say he was out of control and impacted the ground at a fairly steep angle. It was not just failing to clear the hill.

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by KNS

If he was descending at 2000 fpm spatial disorientation had gotten the best of him and he had already lost it. He was most likely way in over his head by that time and fighting to regain control.

He pops out of the bottom of the clouds at a high rate of speed (and most likely high angle of bank) and there isn't enough time to recover as the ground is coming up too fast.

Classic scenario, unfortunately.

This is exactly my preliminary observation from the data. He got closed out of VFR conditions, did an emergency pop-up to try and get above the soup, became disoriented with no time to go fully IFR, lost control and rapidly lost altitude.

[craigster59]

A weather guy I follow (who is extremely accurate) studied the doppler radar in the crash area and said it was a "shelf cloud" that the pilot encountered, not ground fog as first thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcus_cloud

[craigster59]

Here's the article where he explains the cloud and the pilots disorientation:

Satellite Image: Shelf Cloud Along Tall Cloud Front Caused Kobe Bryant’s Pilot To Become Disoriented And Crash Into Hillside – Southern California Weather Force

[JonT]

there was a video of a spiraling helicopter crashing into the ground taken by some random onlookers posted briefly but I don't know if it got pulled or if it was not actually Kobe's aircraft. Sickening to watch either way.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by JonT

there was a video of a spiraling helicopter crashing into the ground taken by some random onlookers posted briefly but I don't know if it got pulled or if it was not actually Kobe's aircraft. Sickening to watch either way.

Jon, it was quickly determined that it was not video of Kobe's helicopter. Some other crash in some other country.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by KNS

If he was descending at 2000 fpm spatial disorientation had gotten the best of him and he had already lost it. He was most likely way in over his head by that time and fighting to regain control.

I could be wrong, but I heard 4000 fpm descent for about a minute.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by daepp

I could be wrong, but I heard 4000 fpm descent for about a minute.

Impossible. That would mean they were over 4000ft agl, which they were not.

Let the folks who know how to do this type of investigation do their work.

I have been the head of a number of accident investigations involving rotary wing aircraft...let them figure it out as those who lost loved ones do the same.

[edgemar]

any idea what the cloud/fog tops were?

[PD41]

This 2017 Comedy Central Kobe helicopter crash cartoon is weird.

[speeder]

So why post it? I know that it's the internet, so anything goes but we can still choose to show some respect. Lots of people hurting over this one.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by edgemar

any idea what the cloud/fog tops were?

In the link I posted above they said that the shelf cloud topped out around 8,000 ft.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by pmax

That's the part I don't understand ... why didn't the pilot just stop in midair and descend ?

You cannot come to a stop or hover in the clouds in a helo.. You have no visual clues which way you might be moving. Quickest way to crash. Some models do have an auto hover feature which could have helped a little, but you have to be stable when you turn it on and as soon as you turn it off, it's over anyway. .

[Cajundaddy]

Preliminary NTSB findings were released. The data suggests that the pilot got closed out of VFR conditions and was climbing to get above the soup. He likely became disoriented and lost control, going into a steep left spiral at 4000' per minute. They missed punching out of the cloud tops by 100'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxjlgmHt7Wk

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

You cannot come to a stop or hover in the clouds in a helo.. You have no visual clues which way you might be moving.

Some helo's have auto-pilot coupled hover capability with dedicated instruments that depict velocity vectors in the hover. Thinks over water search and rescue at night with no horizon. It is amazing to do.

I could even pass control of the helicopter (limited in velocity) to the crewman working the rescue.

In this case it would not have helped.

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Preliminary NTSB findings were released. The data suggests that the pilot got closed out of VFR conditions and was climbing to get above the soup. He likely became disoriented and lost control, going into a steep left spiral at 4000' per minute.

Wow.

A 4000ft a minute rate of descent is hard to do if you want to.

I have about 50 hours in an S-76 (I did the Sikorsky pilot instrument checks when I was at the factory) and can't imagine establishing that rate of descent in that helo.

Wow.

[rusnak]

damn thing was pretty much flying upside down.

[aigel]

Pretty close to what the internet experts concluded. What a nightmare - a commute flight should never take on that much risk to start with. Its not like they were rescued from an expedition.

Can someone explain to me how a $500 drone is stabilized with gyros / accelerometers yet a high line helicopter such as this one doesn't have this function and is flown like it was the 60s?

G

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by aigel

Can someone explain to me how a $500 drone is stabilized with gyros / accelerometers yet a high line helicopter such as this one doesn't have this function and is flown like it was the 60s?

There is a high degree of stabilization in modern helicopters, a very high degree in some.

For civilian designs, it often comes down to cost. I am sure the charter company that owned the S-76 felt they didn't need the additional cost of an instrument rated avionics package. Not cheap. In addition, maintaining IFR pilot quals is expensive in both flight time and lost revenue on the helo.

When I flew out of San Diego, we had to go look for instrument flight conditions 90% of the time.

Lastly, it is very expensive to retro fit and certify some of the new autopilots and six axis gyros with built in GPS that are now on chips rather simply maintain the older systems.

Certification for carrying people is the key.

Whole bunch more but I won't bore you guys. KNS is a current commercial helicopter pilot and no doubt has better insight.