Exactly what I figured ... front wheel drive power ...

I had the Mazdaspeed 3 with 262 (?) hp and FWD. That taught me a lesson about that idea. It was an okay car but never could be driven to its maximum power potential on a nice road such as a canyon. If you go north of 200 hp the vehicle needs to be RWD or AWD.

G

Sorry can't agree with that last statement. There are loads of hot hatches in Europe with well over 200BHP and they can be driven hard on our twisty roads. Trail brake into the corner and progressively but aggressively feed the power in away from the apex onward.My 1000 kg Brabus For Four has 210BHP & 225 lb ft torque and it went
out of corners in a dignified manner faster than a lot of rwd cars managed on the one trackday that I used it for.

No experience with the Neon SRT-4, though I recall reviews stating they were fast and handed well but also had plenty of torque steer.

The criteria that led me to be interested in the Type R was around $30k, newer, reliable, fun, practical, and a stick shift. Not a lot of cars check all those boxes anymore.

My experience with the MS3 is that going up hill on rough roads or uneven surfaces (traction) it would torque steer and slip (even with the "limited slip" electronic differential) to a point that you couldn't drive it more than 6/10ths because it felt like it may bite you any second and pull somewhere you weren't pointing ...

G

Would you actually want to drive a rear drive car full bore on a bumpy rough loose surface on a public road?

My biggest issue with powerful FWD cars is that you are losing both drive traction and steering. At least when your RWD car loses traction in the rear you can still counter steer and control the car. I was hoping the Type R with it’s LSD and trick suspension geometry would do a better job of controlling that aspect.

I drove one, along with an STI and Golf R last summer.

Ended up buying the Golf R with 6MT. Wanting AWD for getting up our steep driveway in the winter was part of the decision.

Type R was fun to drive, Golf R felt much more solid and refined by comparison. Type R felt quicker than the Golf R.

STI felt more powerful than both but Type R and Golf R both were more "zippy" off the line. STI also dated tech by comparison to Type R and Golf R.

All 3 are fun cars in the same class.

My 28 year old son cross shopped Focus RS, STI and Golf R. He sort of looked at the Type R but couldn't get passed the looks to even do a test drive. He settled on a 6MT Golf R. He has two young kids and the Focus RS at least felt small to him. The STI also a bit to "boy racer" and much less refined than the Golf R. I'm proud of him for a lot of things. His military career, being a great father, etc. but I'm almost equally as proud for him choosing the MT :-) He learned to drive in my 82 SC.

Not full bore, but my point is you aren't even getting close to a spirited drive without worrying where you'll end up on the next turn. I think OWP describes the effect / issue very well, maybe you understand better reading his words.

I co-owned the 993 and the MS3. I know it is an unfair comparison,b ut the 993 would eat that canyon road in my backyard in terms of traction and being able to absorb any uneven pavement while the MS3 was just scary, even at half the speed / effort.

G

Well, I have to commend you on giving it a try. That thing could drive like a Mclaren F1, but ain't no way I could walk up to this every morning. Egads! I think I need an ibuprofen.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1580843166.jpg

Honestly I don’t hate it as much on the exterior knowing that everything is functional. But there’s really no excuse for the blatantly tacky interior. Gotta say though, damn the suspension is magic.

For a hothatch gimme a Golf R even a GTI

That civic is Uuuuuuuuugly

I don't think they sell the Renault Mégane RSCup in the US. Gives the Honda a run for its money.How about the Hyundai I30N?A bargain hot hatch which is comparatively roomy inside as well as competently fast.?

No Renault in the US, I’ve read amazing things about the Megane though. We do have the i30N but it’s called the Veloster N, I’d like to drive one but haven’t yet. Supposedly they are equally fun as the Type R, not as fast, but are also about $9k less.

There was a thread here on the board a while back about the appalling failure rate of the Hyundai engines. Something about the engine needing to be replaced at around 40k miles, and folks having had it done multiple times, etc....

Otherwise, the veloster looks the part of the hot hatch.

I think that was older models but I’m not positive.

nope. driving it.

I also have a STAR diagnostic set up. Has been very helpful for maintaining the MBZ fleet.

My focus st is around 250 hp fwd and similar weight. For a cheap fun comuter I don't mind the occasional bit of torque steer. It is a challenge and rewarding to modulate the throttle to manage corner exit. Ironically I think it would be less of an issue at an hpde especially with a mechanical LSD.

I think a Mini cooper S or even a fiesta st is a bit more interesting in a fwd hot hatch. Civic R is a cool car but is trying so hard to be racecar. Smaller less serious hot hatches seem more fun to drive

I know the side vents are but what about these? I will have to cruise the parking lot again for the local blue Type R but I could have sworn they were closed off the first time I looked.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1580921963.jpg

Yeah good question on the rear ones. The standard Civics have them too, I suspect they are just for looks.