Thinking about selling the 911

[cabmandone]

My wife and I have been talking about building a new home and along with it a new building for my business. I've been thinking about selling the 911 to reduce the cost of the new shop. I don't drive the car much each year and I feel like I'd be getting more for my money, more enjoyment, by making my building bigger/better. I don't have to sell the car to do what we're discussing but I feel like I can't justify having the car when I just don't use it. I'm one of those who feels they have to justify ownership of something even though I really don't have to.

The difficult thing is, this car is a childhood dream fulfilled for me. My brother gave me a very brother friendly deal when I bought the car from him as a roller. My brother had bought the car for the 3.2 and transmission to put into his SC, so there are family ties and a common bond that would be somehow broken if I sell it. Don't get me wrong, we have other common bonds. My son and I worked together on the car and went to several car shows together. As he got older the car show "shine" kind of wore off to a point where we don't go to shows anymore.

My dilemma, what is it worth? What is a 1985 911 Carrera Cabriolet worth? Obviously the engine/transmission isn't original. The mileage on the car is unknown. Everything is mechanically sound.The transmission that will be installed this spring just got a visual inspection and 1/2 refresh. The head studs were replaced several years ago with ARP studs which gave me a chance to look at the pistons/cylinders. The car was repainted, not a bare metal job but it looks very nice. The Dash was replaced. The top has been replaced. The seats have vinyl upholstery. The carpeting was replaced. I installed a wideband 02 where the central lock was in the center console. I removed the central lock because the micro switches were bad in the doors and I saw no need for central lock. I have all the CL parts to put it back to original. I never installed the AC but have the compressor to do so. Pretty much everything took off the car that was factory, I kept so it could be brought back to factory with a little work. Most of the rubber parts under the car have been replaced. I have a book dating back to the 80's with receipts for the car that I've tried to keep up with the best I could. I never had the intention of selling as I was putting it back together.

I'm not saying I'm going to sell for certain. Just trying to figure out what it would be worth. Your .02?

[HardDrive]

Can you post some photos?

[cabmandone]

Yeah at some point I will. Right now the rear valance is off of it because I put a 1 in 2 out muffler on it and have to paint the valance I bought to modify for the 2 out. I have the factory 1 out muffler and valance. I also have my highly modified ugly can 1 out and the modified 2 out my brother insisted I put on the car.

[McLovin]

High 20s. Maybe low 30s.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by McLovin

High 20s. Maybe low 30s.

That's what my brother was saying too. I just wasn't sure where the market for a car without the original engine and unknown miles should fall. I plan to have compression and leak down tested prior to selling. And while the engine is out for installing the refreshed transmission I'm probably going to address engine fuel lines plus install new engine/transmission mounts.

[Evans, Marv]

I'm not up on the latest pricing on '85 Carrera cabs, but that range seems pretty low to me. If I were in the market, I'd snap it up at that price range. Even not being in the market for one, I might would buy it if it were closer to me.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

I'm not up on the latest pricing on '85 Carrera cabs, but that range seems pretty low to me. If I were in the market, I'd snap it up at that price range. Even not being in the market for one, I might would buy it if it were closer to me.

What's a couple thousand miles?? It's like a stones throw if you have a rocket for an arm.

[greglepore]

Agree w mclovin. Market is slowing, and cabs have been softer than coupes. The recent dow volatility might make folks nervous.


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[speeder]

I think that McLovin’s numbers are quite a bit high for the car you are describing and I follow 911 sales on BaT like a hawk. Sales prices are high there and this car would sell for the minimum value of its parts, which is still quite a bit.

Very decent 911 cabs have sold in the 20s because of minor stories or repaints, low 30s gets you a mint, “no stories” 3.2 cab. This car sounds rough w vinyl seats, replacement drivetrain, etc. I’d plan on $20k, local sale.

[speeder]

Clean title, right?

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by speeder

I think that McLovin’s numbers are quite a bit high for the car you are describing and I follow 911 sales on BaT like a hawk. Sales prices are high there and this car would sell for the minimum value of its parts, which is still quite a bit.

Very decent 911 cabs have sold in the 20s because of minor stories or repaints, low 30s gets you a mint, “no stories” 3.2 cab. This car sounds rough w vinyl seats, replacement drivetrain, etc. I’d plan on $20k, local sale.

Have to agree here. A non-original/TMU Cab, maybe low/mid $20's (and that's assuming no paint/body/mechanical/interior issues, a clean title, and a desirable color combo).

Maybe clean it up reeeel gud, and throw it on BAT. Good luck!

[Jeff Higgins]

I've had this conversation with many Porsche owning friends. We were having a lot of these kinds of conversations amongst my Pac West R Gruppe chapter buddies as we all watched in stunned amazement when the value of our cars were skyrocketing. It got to be very, very tempting for many of us to sell cars in which we had maybe $10-$20k invested for healthy six figure sums.

Well, some of us sold, some of us did not. For those of who did not, it boiled down to just a couple of reasons. One, sentimental value. In my case, my two young sons grew up learning to work on cars by helping me wrench on my 911. We spent a lot of father/son time together and formed a lasting bond that I'm not sure we would have formed in any other way. They are both grown and gone now, but we still spend a lot of Porsche centric time together. Any time I'm around that car I can't help but think of all of the good times it represents for us.

The other reason is money. Yes, six figures for an early car is ludicrous, and many jumped at that opportunity. Those of us who did not saw it this way - while a good deal of money, it wasn't life changing money. Getting rid of the car would be life changing, however. At least for those of us deeply involved in the hobby, and deeply involved in our club.

So, it sounds like you have half of that equation - the sentimental value, the link to your brother. It sounds like you are somewhat lacking in the second component, though. While it sounds like you don't need the money, it does sound like you are not that deeply involved in the hobby, or into some club. So, yeah, hmm... tough call. I'm a very sentimental guy, so I lean that way on a lot of decisions, so if it were me and I didn't need the money to proceed... hmm... I'd probably keep it...

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by speeder

Clean title, right?

Yeah.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I've had this conversation with many Porsche owning friends. We were having a lot of these kinds of conversations amongst my Pac West R Gruppe chapter buddies as we all watched in stunned amazement when the value of our cars were skyrocketing. It got to be very, very tempting for many of us to sell cars in which we had maybe $10-$20k invested for healthy six figure sums.

Well, some of us sold, some of us did not. For those of who did not, it boiled down to just a couple of reasons. One, sentimental value. In my case, my two young sons grew up learning to work on cars by helping me wrench on my 911. We spent a lot of father/son time together and formed a lasting bond that I'm not sure we would have formed in any other way. They are both grown and gone now, but we still spend a lot of Porsche centric time together. Any time I'm around that car I can't help but think of all of the good times it represents for us.

The other reason is money. Yes, six figures for an early car is ludicrous, and many jumped at that opportunity. Those of us who did not saw it this way - while a good deal of money, it wasn't life changing money. Getting rid of the car would be life changing, however. At least for those of us deeply involved in the hobby, and deeply involved in our club.

So, it sounds like you have half of that equation - the sentimental value, the link to your brother. It sounds like you are somewhat lacking in the second component, though. While it sounds like you don't need the money, it does sound like you are not that deeply involved in the hobby, or into some club. So, yeah, hmm... tough call. I'm a very sentimental guy, so I lean that way on a lot of decisions, so if it were me and I didn't need the money to proceed... hmm... I'd probably keep it...

One of the things that weighs on this is the fact I'll probably never buy another "icon". and the 911 of this vintage is an icon. Even younger kids at the car shows we went to knew it was a Porsche 911.
You're right about not being that into the hobby part of ownership. I just don't enjoy wrenching on it anymore. There was the fun of getting it together. There was the fun of getting it right to where it was a good example of the vehicle. Now it's work. I've always felt that once a hobby becomes work, it's time to move on.

[aigel]

How is the body and paint?

I also don't think it is a 30k car. But somewhere in the mid 20s if it shows nice with good mechanicals.

My question is how much running costs do you have if you don't drive it much? What is it worth to you to own the car?

My 993 doesnt' get driven much but in return, it doesn't take much to keep it up, with an oil change a year and insurance / registration. I do make it a point to take it out on drives and an occasional track day and if I had any doubts before that, they vanish after the first half a lap!

For me the car is a bit in the way with my current lifestyle - no room to really drive it in congested suburban traffic - but I know there will be a time, in 5-10 years from now when I either will be in a more open area or will have time to get away in it. I am keeping it for that. I still recall looking at the 993 at the dealer lot in 1994 on my bicycle studying for physics finals ...

G

[Jeff Higgins]

Agreed - I have had many hobbies over the course of my life that turned into "work". Once I "mastered" them, or got out of them what I was after, the enjoyment kind of faded.

My best example was my long range black powder cartridge rifle match shooting. It took me many, many years to climb to the top of that game - there are an awful lot of nuances, as one can well imagine. Once I started winning matches, the other competitors rather expected me to be there - I turned into the guy they were all gunning for. Now I was going to the matches for them, not me, and it got to be a burden I was starting to resent. I had learned everything I wanted to learn. So, regaining that perspective, I quit. I returned several perpetual trophies to their respective match directors without attending their matches.

I was burned out on it. My match rifles sat for years. More like a decade. I did, however, finally pick them up and start shooting them again, this time just for fun, on my terms. I'm truly enjoying them once again.

I know a few rifles are much easier to store and ignore than a car. I only relate this in the context of suggesting that maybe all you need is a similar break. There are other things taking precedence in your life - attend to those, let the car sit, and see where you are after awhile.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

Have to agree here. A non-original/TMU Cab, maybe low/mid $20's (and that's assuming no paint/body/mechanical/interior issues, a clean title, and a desirable color combo).

Maybe clean it up reeeel gud, and throw it on BAT. Good luck!

The problem is that you don't simply "throw" a car on BaT...they have to accept it. It does seem like they've never seen an air-cooled 911 they could say no to, however.

They would set the reserve or insist on *No Reserve*, as well. When a car doesn't sell, they don't make their cut.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by speeder

The problem is that you don't simply "throw" a car on BaT...they have to accept it. It does seem like they've never seen an air-cooled 911 they could say no to, however.

Exactly. Their "exclusivity" bar seems to have lowered substantially since its inception, IMO. If the OP's car presents reasonably well, they'll take it.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by aigel

How is the body and paint?

I also don't think it is a 30k car. But somewhere in the mid 20s if it shows nice with good mechanicals.

My question is how much running costs do you have if you don't drive it much? What is it worth to you to own the car?

My 993 doesnt' get driven much but in return, it doesn't take much to keep it up, with an oil change a year and insurance / registration. I do make it a point to take it out on drives and an occasional track day and if I had any doubts before that, they vanish after the first half a lap!

For me the car is a bit in the way with my current lifestyle - no room to really drive it in congested suburban traffic - but I know there will be a time, in 5-10 years from now when I either will be in a more open area or will have time to get away in it. I am keeping it for that. I still recall looking at the 993 at the dealer lot in 1994 on my bicycle studying for physics finals ...

G

Body is good. Paint is good. It has gone indoors from late October early November until the first few good rains of spring wash the salt off the roads. It gets a good buff and wax each spring before it comes out to play. Mechanically it's rock solid. I'd jump in the car today and drive it out to NoVa to visit my brother without a second thought. I only refreshed the transmission that's going in it because I knew the transmission could shift better than it does. The only thing I can think of that it might need is the spring plate bushings replaced and the windshield washer pump replaced (it never has worked and I didn't much care because I've never needed it)

It's not so much what it costs for ownership but that I just can't justify having it. It's not really about the money. It's about what that money could be better used for. I'm too practical sometimes. When my UTV gets more use than the Porsche, something has to go.

As for room to drive, I got nothing but room to drive it. The problem is, that room is 1 mile squares. I live in the flats and part of the enjoyment of the car is the "S" in the road and you don't find many of those in my part of Ohio.

[aigel]

But your argument that it is "work" is really not valid, if it "finished" and only needs upkeep which is a few hours a year.

One reason I like mechanical projects is that you can walk away from them for a year if needed and no harm done. I recall rebuilding the transmission on the 993 and the car being up on jackstands for a year or so. I was wise and put fuel stabilizer before shutting her down - knowing how it may go. I have a lot to do at work, a family and a handful of other hobbies ...

I may turn out a loner, but I have refrained from club activities or group hunts, group exercises etc, because I want to do it on my schedule. If I had a long week at work, the last thing I need is a guy waiting for me at the wildlife refuge at 3 am on Saturday. I just go by myself for an evening hunt instead, Sunday if need be.

G