Question about routers etc

[Scott Douglas]

A lot of times when my internet service quits working and I do the MS diagnostics on it, it comes back with 'DNS Server not found or not responding'.
Where is this DNS server located?
How does rebooting the router (shut off, unplug for 10+ secs, turn back on) 'fix' things?

[zakthor]

I know something about this. Sounds like you're talking about your home wifi and a problem with your router. And that an apparent dns issue is being resolved by rebooting your router.

DNS is internet address resolution. The rough idea is to translate the text names of internet addresses into a numeric ip address. Its a distributed system, lots of moving parts, but generally it works well.

Roughly it works like this: when you make a request to the internet your computer checks its dns cache, if it believes it has the address already it will uses that, otherwise network request goes to your wifi router, if router cache can't serve your request then router sends request to your providers dns server, etc...

What is probably happening in your case is that your router has a s**t-a** implementation of dns and is crashing.

I've run into a bunch of routers whose internal dns code is rife with bugs and errors. The routers worked fine with some old slow devices but can't handle cases exposed by newer devices and software.

There are a set of belkins that whose dns will crash if you use them with ipads. There are some other old routers that would crash if you gave them too many dns queries in a row. Is stunning to me that this is so difficult to get right. Its been more than 10 years and companies still struggle with this.

Chrome and IE browsers do DNS prefetching as part of page load, they speculatively scan each page and query dns for all urls. This can mean 400-1000 dns queries within a few ms and that causes crappy routers to crash their dns.

Your first solution is to check if there are updates to your router software. If nothing or it it doesn't fix then buy a better router. Probably any modern unit will be good. I have been really happy with mikrotik but I've heard some people think the setup is difficult.

[bkreigsr]

Go with the Porter Cable.

https://www.cpooutlets.com/porter-cable-7518-speedmatic-3-1-4-peak-hp-five-speed-router/pcbn7518.html?ref=pla&zmam=31282435&zmas=47&zmac=722&zmap=pcbn7518&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmdzzBRC7ARIsANdqRRntPkW2uiQx87CaZj97 uMr851uqU3-EvtTxu4rk53KUBOZym0FPaVYaAlKoEALw_wcB

Sorry, that's the extent of my computer-eze.

[Scott Douglas]

Thanks guys. This router is one we're 'renting' from Frontier, our Fios internet provider. It's a couple of years old and was 'upgraded' when we went with their 100/100 service two years ago(?).
Could it just be getting old?
Could we put in our own router so we wouldn't have to 'rent' theirs?

Edit: Funny bkreigsr, I just clicked your link.

[stomachmonkey]

Your router comes preset to use your ISP's DNS which is usually crap.

Log into it and change that or change it in the network interface of your PC.

https://makeawebsitehub.com/free-and-public-dns-services/

[VincentVega]

^ this

64.6.64.6

[stealthn]

Either change your routers DNS entries, or add ones to your PC. As a bonus use Cisco’s Umbrella DNS servers for another layer of protection from bad sites.

208.67.222.222
+
208.67.220.220

[MBAtarga]

Originally Posted by bkreigsr

Go with the Porter Cable.

https://www.cpooutlets.com/porter-cable-7518-speedmatic-3-1-4-peak-hp-five-speed-router/pcbn7518.html?ref=pla&zmam=31282435&zmas=47&zmac=722&zmap=pcbn7518&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmdzzBRC7ARIsANdqRRntPkW2uiQx87CaZj97 uMr851uqU3-EvtTxu4rk53KUBOZym0FPaVYaAlKoEALw_wcB

Sorry, that's the extent of my computer-eze.

My preference is the versatility of the 690 model. D handle base, plunge router base, and standard. I wouldn't turn down a 7518 if someone gave me one though.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/porter-cable-1-3-4-hp-maximum-motor-hp-multi-base-router-kit-model-693lrpk?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI17nTqLmv6AIVmoTICh1_QgQv EAQYAyABEgLOuPD_BwE

[RKDinOKC]

Set my DNS per device by IP and not DCHP (router or ISP).

[masraum]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

^ this

64.6.64.6

I also hear that 8.8.8.8 is very good.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

My preference is the versatility of the 690 model. D handle base, plunge router base, and standard. I wouldn't turn down a 7518 if someone gave me one though.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/porter-cable-1-3-4-hp-maximum-motor-hp-multi-base-router-kit-model-693lrpk?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI17nTqLmv6AIVmoTICh1_QgQv EAQYAyABEgLOuPD_BwE

I find that WAZE works well.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by masraum

I also hear that 8.8.8.8 is very good.

8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1 are very good.

8.8.8.8 is Google

1.1.1.1 is Cloudflare and APNIC

[red-beard]

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3427013/best-free-dns-services-2019.html

[masraum]

Originally Posted by zakthor

What is probably happening in your case is that your router has a s**t-a** implementation of dns and is crashing.

I've run into a bunch of routers whose internal dns code is rife with bugs and errors. The routers worked fine with some old slow devices but can't handle cases exposed by newer devices and software.

There are a set of belkins that whose dns will crash if you use them with ipads. There are some other old routers that would crash if you gave them too many dns queries in a row. Is stunning to me that this is so difficult to get right. Its been more than 10 years and companies still struggle with this.

I'd agree with what Zakthor said, and I think ^^this^^ is the crux of the problem.

I also think that if you can configure your router to provide specific IPs or something other than itself as the DNS for the PCs then that will go a long way towards rectifying your issue. If you can't configure the router to provide something besides itself, then the next best thing would be to hard code several on the devices that use the router (ie, PCs). If you've got phones or ipads, I'm not sure how easy that is to do (I haven't tried it myself).

I'd recommend using at least one of the DNS servers that comes from your provider, even if it's farther down the list.

[zakthor]

Look into a way to stop renting from frontier. Buy your own modem/router if it will save your monthly, often owning will pay for itself in less than a year. Look at your bill and call frontier. At the least tell them to fix their device.

Wrt using external dns, that means most every dns query leaves your home and the latency can be a killer for pageload. It means network translation latency for every url prior to loading from it. Slowdown can be very noticeable, but depends on what youre doing and how many places a page gets its resources from. I think much better to get a working dns within your home network.