The Other Virus Casualties

[onewhippedpuppy]

Two locally owned restaurants that I frequent have announced they are closing and not reopening, one is owned by a member of our church and our kids go to school together. Just another way in which people’s lives are being destroyed, and why I often fear that our “cure” is worse than the sickness. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BUSINESSES! At least those that are still open. I’m getting takeout tonight.....

[stevej37]

And now the talk is of late May.....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/public-health-experts-parts-of-the-country-could-see-coronavirus-social-distancing-restrictions-begin-to-ease-by-late-may-164452862.html

[McLovin]

It does seem like we need to take a more localized, sensible approach.
For example I just looked up Kansas. 3 million population. 55 deaths. 293 total have been hospitalized (I’m sure many are now out).
If the whole mass lockdown thing is to “flatten the curve” so we don’t overburden hospitals, hasn’t that now been achieved in Kansas?
I’m not saying they should go back into cramming 10,000 people into an arena for a concert tomorrow, but can’t reasonable steps be started to open things back up and allow people to start salvaging their livelihoods?

[McLovin]

I know most people don’t own businesses or know how they work, but forcing businesses to shutter is absolutely devastating to families.
It’s not like you just close the doors and walk away.
Most small business obligations are personally guaranteed. Like long term leases. Walking away triggers personal debt of hundreds of thousands of dollars, basically forcing so many personal bankruptcies and loss of everything. It’s totally devastating.

[red-beard]

My insurance renewal for my business is up and I was talking with my agent. He said lots of businesses are going under. Business insurance doesn't cover pandemics.

Bars and large events will be the last things to reopen.

[pavulon]

Nobody is happy about this mess. If these measures are too much, how much morbidity and mortality should be acceptable?

[911boost]

How DARE you try to think on your own or act sensible.

Don’t you know it’s the governments job to tell you what to do?

Just getting that in before it gets parroted by all the usual folks.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Nobody is happy about this mess. If these measures are too much, how much morbidity and mortality should be acceptable?

I don’t know. Other than it’s some number higher than zero.

Again, my understanding was the lockdown measures were to prevent local hospitals from being overwhelmed. That makes sense.

Is that no longer the reasoning? I don’t know.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by McLovin

I don’t know. Other than it’s some number higher than zero.

Again, my understanding was the lockdown measures were to prevent local hospitals from being overwhelmed. That makes sense.

Is that no longer the reasoning? I don’t know.

I believe that is very correct. Of course the reasoning that landed us here is a respect for exponential sorts of viral spread.

[island911]

Originally Posted by McLovin

I know most people don’t own businesses or know how they work, but forcing businesses to shutter is absolutely devastating to families.
It’s not like you just close the doors and walk away.
Most small business obligations are personally guaranteed. Like long term leases. Walking away triggers personal debt of hundreds of thousands of dollars, basically forcing so many personal bankruptcies and loss of everything. It’s totally devastating.

THIS.

I am SOO glad I'm no longer on the hook for a business and it's lease. I certainly feel for the guy who bought it, and every other small business owner having to finance this madness.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Nobody is happy about this mess. If these measures are too much, how much morbidity and mortality should be acceptable?

Ask Ben Franklin & Thomas Jefferson
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben

Destroying a citizen's livelihood and life crosses the Declaration of Independence's decree that says we have an inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. -Thomas

The erosion of these fundamental truths are a step toward a dictatorial control that the govt will have over its citizens "for their own good". Yes, I know, it isn't a clear cut black and white (not a racial term) but when there is any gray area, the govt should defer to the freedom our country stands upon. Not to mention, states rights...

[island911]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Nobody is happy about this mess. If these measures are too much, how much morbidity and mortality should be acceptable?

on average 102 people DIE each DAY from autos. (US)

Do we shut down transportation?

With so many boomers now in the 59-74 year old range we will have even more people nearing that time where being pushed over the life's edge by otherwise minor ailments is common. Do we live like Indian untouchables if it gives them each a few extra months?

Life. Nobody gets out alive. Live while you can.

[island911]

Originally Posted by McLovin

...

Again, my understanding was the lockdown measures were to prevent local hospitals from being overwhelmed. That makes sense.

Is that no longer the reasoning? I don’t know.

That is no longer the reasoning. The reasoning now is; I'm a control-freak govt goon and I found a plump opportunity. Bend to my power bich!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Nobody is happy about this mess. If these measures are too much, how much morbidity and mortality should be acceptable?

That is a tough, tough question.
Who are you going to tell, "You're going to have to pick yourself up and start over," and who are you going to tell, "Your live isn't worth the effort."
I started over twice, and I'm glad to be alive. I'm glad my success wasn't at the expense of someone else's life. But that's just me.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Nobody is happy about this mess. If these measures are too much, how much morbidity and mortality should be acceptable?

I'm not so sure about that. I'll bet there are more than a few who, for whatever reason, are pleased to see the collapse of capitalism no matter the cost.

They may not know that is what is happening but they see 'the businessman' as the enemy and gladly see the government stepping in to finally 'level the playing field', or whatever. There are a lotta people who have never once been associated with or been a part of the economy in any contributory or meaningful way. Money is not something that is earned it is something that is gotten, and by any means.

There is colossal ignorence on a colossal scale out there.

[island911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

That is a tough, tough question.
Who are you going to tell, "You're going to have to pick yourself up and start over," and who are you going to tell, "Your live isn't worth the effort."
...

False premise. The "Your live isn't worth the effort."

Who said, you can't help up a ladder a person not willing to help climb.

Anyway, the effort, in this case, is on the people at risk to stay clear of danger.

The way you spin it, you make it society's responsibility to make the world void of threat to life.

The real world isn't' Disney Land.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Everything we do in life carries risk. And the drive to pick up my takeout tonight will be exponentially more dangerous than my risk of contracting CV.

Btw, people love to throw out SAVING LIVES as a sort of trump card (no not Donald). But what about the people who will be homeless because they lost everything? Or the father who shoots himself in the head because he can’t support his family and has lost everything? Or the formerly gainfully employed person who turns to crime because he has no other option? Don’t kid yourself, the “cure” will kill plenty of people. In places like KS, where we don’t have a dense urban population center, I’d wager it will kill more.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by island911

The way you spin it, you make it society's responsibility to make the world void of threat to life.

But, the govt IS responsible to get out of the way and not hinder an honest business. There are those who would LOVE to take control of your choices and this is in the forefront of the race for the nominee of one party for this fall.

[Arizona_928]

Just wait. Gov is sending you 1200 dollars next week

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

But, the govt IS responsible to get out of the way and not hinder an honest business. There are those who would LOVE to take control of your choices and this is in the forefront of the race for the nominee of one party for this fall.

Both sides relish the idea of absolute control of the masses - none more than our current spotlight hog.