Plug-in hybrid for 25-mile commute

[beepbeep]

Hi,

My current commuter (17yo VW Golf) is getting 25MPG. It is reliable but getting pricey in upkeep/fuel/road tax so I am looking for something that can make my 25 mile (roundtrip) commute a tad cheaper. Also, it would be nice to drive something with antispin and cruise control.

I am divided between following options:

2012-2013 Opel Ampera (Basically first gen Chevy Volt in drag)
2012-2014 Prius XW30 Plug in
2012-2014 Prius "vulgaris"

Ampera/Volt:
+can make whole trip on one charge.
+ more power?
+ nicer interior
- more complicated than Prius
- Chevy quality
- batteries are more expensive to replace
- only 4 seats

Prius XW30 Plug in:
+ reliable
+ 5 seats
+ good residuals
+ Easy to wrench on
- less range
- boring interior

Prius "non-plugin":
+ Cheapest
+ 5 seats
+ good residuals
+ easy to wrench on
- higher cost per mile
- boring interior

Volt/Ampera and Prius are roughly in same price range. I would love Ampera but batteries are out of warranty now and is hideusly expensive. Also, transaxle is very complicated and so is cooling system. Prius is an appliance, but a good one. Lexus is somewhat of an overkill for commuting but can be used on longer trips.

I drive roughly 10000 miles a year and fuel costs 6$ per gallon (yes). Road tax is 30$ vs 300$ a year.


What would be your pick?

[wdfifteen]

We loved our gen 1 Volt, but only drove it about 25,000 miles before selling it and getting a gen 2 Volt.

You might go to the 1st gen Volt forum and lurk a while.

https://gm-volt.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?16-Chevy-Volt-Owners-Forum

Nobody's talking about trouble with the propulsion battery.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

gen 2 Volt.

Unfortunately, we never got those overhere

I did check the forums and there were some instances of batteries going wrong. Not many but it happens. And you cannot just swap one cell like in (non-plugin) Prius Most of issues were bad bearing on CVT/gearbox and various coolant leaking issues.

[ckelly78z]

You may want to tune up the VW Golf, they are rated at 42/49 MPG for 2003.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

You may want to tune up the VW Golf, they are rated at 42/49 MPG for 2003.

Everything is in tune, but it is a heavier Variant (=wagon) with 02M auto gearbox and 1.6 8-valve gas engine. Lots of cold starts, studded winter tires and 13mile commute net ~25MPG. On highway, MPG are generally better but not great. Accelleration is anything but stellar...103 hp. So you end up driving a lot with WOT.

[Tobra]

Nissan leaf available there? Fiat made an electric 500, or sold one here anyway.

[masraum]

I've not had an electric vehicle myself, but I can tell you that the last couple of times that I was in New York City, most of the taxis were Priuses, which I think must count for something.

[expatriot98]

Wife had an 06 Prius and now a 15 Volt. The Prius holds more cargo and back seat is more comfortable. The Prius battery was replaced(dead cells replaced) at 200K. The brake actuator went bad too which is a very common problem with Gen 2. Dealer wanted $3K to replace it but I found a local shop did it for about $1K. Still a really trouble free car. The Volt only has 20K on it as we live 1/2 mile from her work. Other than replacing a 12 V battery and oil changes, it's been reliable. It has some quirks but I like the way the Volt looks a lot more.

edit - the Volt does about 38 miles on a charge. Hardly ever put gas in it.

[wdfifteen]

In Sweden? It's cold there. I don't know about the other plug-in hybrids, but the Volt uses the ICE when it gets below 32f (0 c) to warm the battery. On short trips in very cold weather the ICE runs most of the time.

[beepbeep]

Thanks for all input.

Leaf and Fiat 500E er available here but are out of scope. They are significantly more expensive. Also, Fiat has fit & finish issues and Leaf battery temp management seems to be not so good. My usage pattern is either <25 miles or >200 miles. Pure BEV would be expensive and overkill for <25 miles and will still force me to charge on long trips.

Other hybrid alternatives are Lexus CT 200h (Prius "vulgaris" in nice dress) or GS 450h (a rocket that has roughly same MPG as my current 100hp sled).

It is <0 deg C for couple of months here. If Volt is running ICE bellow 0 deg C then perhaps Prius/Lexus non-plugin has better ROI and lower running costs?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

It is <0 deg C for couple of months here. If Volt is running ICE bellow 0 deg C then perhaps Prius/Lexus non-plugin has better ROI and lower running costs?

Prius/Lexus hybrid still has batteries. I don't know how they heat them. It might be a case of not using much battery for 2 months either way. The big advantage of a plug-in in cold weather is that you can heat the car using house current while you're having breakfast, and drive off to work in a toasty warm car.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Hi,
I drive roughly 10000 miles a year and fuel costs 6$ per gallon (yes). Road tax is 30$ vs 300$ a year.

I was going to say: "what are you, an ice road trucker?". But then I saw, oh Sweden.

Cost per mile spreadsheet is your best tool. Factor in repairs, and the resale value. The exercise is not hard, and you may be surprised that newer cars are more affordable than older cars of the same class/ price range.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Prius/Lexus hybrid still has batteries. I don't know how they heat them. It might be a case of not using much battery for 2 months either way.

I believe ICE is there to speed up interior heat, but that is a very good point. I will research that further. Non-Plugin Prius/Lexus hybrids will use battery to get up to speed (as they have no clutches, they cannot start from 0 on ICE alone).

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

The big advantage of a plug-in in cold weather is that you can heat the car using house current while you're having breakfast, and drive off to work in a toasty warm car.

Almost all cars (even ICE) over here are equipped with block + interior heater. (same as in Canada I believe). Usually, you plug in the car when you come home. Timer is set so engine is pre-heated and internal heater will make sure coupe is heated.

[einreb]

We have a 2014 gen 1 Volt. I absolutely love it and it has been very reliable (now with 85k miles on it).

The user interface and whatnot is dated, but that's really my only complaint.

I had wanted something electric-ish, but I'm cheap. After bantering with a GM engineer friend, I got a lot of good vibes on how much effort and overbuild/design they put into the system. I picked it up used a few years back with 60k miles on it.

The one issue we did have was a hole in the radiator (around 80k miles). There is a cheap aftermarket mesh grill to add to the front air damn that should reduce the chances of it happening in the future.

[Steve Carlton]

[beepbeep]

Update: I sold my old Dodge Caravan and got myself a 80kmiles Chevy Volt/Opel Ampera ... can you see my US car theme going here?
Brakes are unused but rusted and shot (PO mostly used regen braking) and oil change is due (ICE has been barely used).

On the flip side:
- tires are new
- it is in immaculate external and internal condition (I am sure my kids will soon change that)
- battery is still good for 40 miles of EV range.

Did brake fluid flush today and ordered new front rotors/pads. Let's see how this will work through winter...

[techweenie]

I'm on my 3rd Volt, having leased a Gen 1 back in 2013. It's the best choice by far. If you employ a few tricks, you can get greater-than-stated range. I know 4 Porsche 911 owners who have Volts as second cars.

Sounds like the Gen 2 Volt is not available where you are. I drove 85 miles on battery alone in rain and heavy traffic in one of those. You can go 50 or so miles in normal driving. Switchover to gas is seamless. It's nice to only fill up 3 times a year!

Oh, and Easter Egg bonus: if you get an Ampera, you'll enjoy the movie The Worlds End even more.

[Deschodt]

Not hybrid, but here in the states we can get incredible deals on some electrics... I am paying $124 a month for an E-golf - I mention it because you have a golf now. It's a great car. 130mi real range, super quick off the line, fully equipped... I was fully intending to buy mine post lease but I'm now working from home for the foreseable future. Costs about $1.50 to recharge the battery fully... never in a shop, no maintenance at all... it's the future of city runabouts.

[GH85Carrera]

I thought every Volvo was electric now. I figured with a locally produced vehicle and all the government subsidies you could buy a new made in Sweden vehicle.

I just looked and every 2020 Volvo I saw for sale at the local dealer has a 4 cylinder engine. The Volvo all electric is "still to come".

[LWJ]

For the warm months? An ebike could do this easy.

For the cold ones? BRRRRR.