Mike Tyson’s Return to Boxing

[DonDavis]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

...This boxing vs. MMA debate has raged since the inception of MMA. Fans of one pick on the other, a vis versa. It's all good clean fun. Nothing is meant by it. For most of us, anyway. The adults in the room...

^^^This. Well worded.

Grew up a big boxing fan. Boxed a little till I was 15.

When MMA first began, I was uncertain. No rules, no weight classes...it all seemed like watching bar fights. Not my thing.

Then UFC came in and established real, sensible guidelines. I truly enjoy seeing all the different disciplines in action. My cousin was a grappling instructor in the Army. Another cousin is actually fighting in smaller circles in the southeast with some success. His dad refs some fights.

Jorge Masvidal came up through some backyard fighting, aka Kimbo. He's very good.
He had Roberto Duran at one of his fights. I jumped up clapping when he entered the ring with him.

Love it all. There's room for it.

Kinda like a 1964 Land Rover or a nice 2010 C63. Similar money, different as all hell, both friggin' awesome.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

What about Ali and Tyson in their prime?

My money would be on Tyson.

There will be a computer program for that in the future.
It will factor moves, speed, conditioning, even predictive mental state.
Ali's bobbing and showboat might make Tyson lose it.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

What about Ali and Tyson in their prime?

My money would be on Tyson.

Originally Posted by john70t

Ali's bobbing and showboat might make Tyson lose it.

I don't see Ali having the luxury of showboating. He would a little, surely, but it would not be "his plan".

My money on Tyson as well.

[Jeff Higgins]

I think one of the things that gets lost in these "Ali vs. Tyson" (and similar) debates is the advance in physical training as time marches on. I believe Tyson was much stronger, faster, and in far better condition than Ali ever was. But I also believe that if you were able to take the man that was Mohamed Ali, the heart that was Mohamed Ali, and somehow transport him into the modern era of boxing, and availed him of all of our modern training, he would, once again, excel as he did in his era. He had the genetics, the aptitude, and the heart. If he were a modern heavyweight, fighting today, I think the rest of them would be in big trouble. Same with Tyson, retroactively - if he were of Ali's era, he would almost certainly not have had the power and speed he brought to the ring, but he would still be the same distance ahead of the crowd as he was during his era. I think direct comparisons across eras must take modern training into account. The man is still the man - any one of them, in the other man's era, would be comparatively the same as he was in his own era. But, if you took the modern Iron Mike and pitted him against the vintage Ali, Tyson would kill him. Maybe literally.

[sc_rufctr]

Well said Jeff.

[DWBOX2000]

People somehow forget Holyfield was better. Beat him twice easily. Watch “Chasing Tyson”. Just because one dresses in black, talked a lot of tough talk and knocked out a lot of lower lever fighters and has been’s, doesn’t really mean he’s really “The baddest man on the planet”. Unfortunately image is not always reality.

[KFC911]

^^^^ This...and at the very top...it's always "mental". I was a b-ball fanatic....MJ, Bird, Magic, etc. had skills, but the heart and brain of a champion is what seperated them from the rest. Tyson doesn't have that....Ali did. I was a Joe Frazier fan....hated Ali's bs...back then. He put Joe in the hospital with his skills, and Joe was a tough SOB. Later in his career, I realized how tough Ali was....he could take a beating and not give up....by some powerful grill masters too .

Don King turned me away from boxing too....total slime .

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

BTW, anyone who wrestled in college knows things few people know. The ground is where we all lose our virginity.

HA! I knew the color of every gym ceiling in my high school league!

[stevej37]

This mag..'The Collidor' shows their top 30 boxers of all time.
Tyson isn't included.
https://collider.com/galleries/30-greatest-boxers-of-all-time/?utm_source=geni&utm_campaign=35450177326&utm_term=HOMEPAGE_US&utm_gemini=yahoo.com&utm_content=newnext&utm_medium=It_YG_CO_US_D_ChrEdg_GreatestBoxersCO_c rsl_v3_1505

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by stevej37

This mag..'The Collidor' shows their top 30 boxers of all time.
Tyson isn't included.
https://collider.com/galleries/30-greatest-boxers-of-all-time/?utm_source=geni&utm_campaign=35450177326&utm_term=HOMEPAGE_US&utm_gemini=yahoo.com&utm_content=newnext&utm_medium=It_YG_CO_US_D_ChrEdg_GreatestBoxersCO_c rsl_v3_1505

Just finished reading the entire list. Not much there I can argue with. I definitely agree with their #1 pick.
Some way before even my time, others I can remember.

One not on the list I admire? An east coast lightweight, Danny Deliberto. Only 30 fights because of broken hands..
but was undefeated. His manager/trainer Angelo Dundee convinced him to find something other than boxing.
So he did...always a good amateur pool player, he upped his game enough to make a good living.
Now in his 80's, he can sometimes be found commenting on live stream pool matchups.

On a stream I was watching he mentioned he never told his children of his boxing career.
Then told of one day he told a son to answer the phone.
His son came in the room, and asked; "How do you know Angelo Dundee?"

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

People somehow forget Holyfield was better. Beat him twice easily. Watch “Chasing Tyson”. Just because one dresses in black, talked a lot of tough talk and knocked out a lot of lower lever fighters and has been’s, doesn’t really mean he’s really “The baddest man on the planet”. Unfortunately image is not always reality.

Said it before here, I don't know boxing. The literal image of Tyson beating people up really hard and really fast is tough to shake. It was impressive and frightening.

I'll watch the Holyfield v Tyson fights over a few adult beverages tonight to broaden my base.

[MRM]

Remember that George Foreman won the unified heavyweight title when he was 45 and held it until he retired at 48.

[stevej37]

I sat a few rows back for a Mayweather vs (I can't remember) back at the early part of his career.
The tv crew included Foreman as a commentator.
During the time-out between the different bouts, Foreman walked thru the rows talking to the fans.
Even seeing him from 100 ft away...the guy was truly imposing.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

People somehow forget Holyfield was better. Beat him twice easily.

Just watched the first Holyfield v Tyson.

"Beat him easily" is a stretch.

Holyfield had a plan. It worked and he earned it. I really enjoyed that.

I suspect I would lose to either in their prime given my advancing age.

[KFC911]

LOL....who was the bozo that had "Hi" "Mom" written on the bottom of his shoes....mebbe it was Leon?

A paycheck is a paycheck ...

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by KC911

LOL....who was the bozo that had "Hi" "Mom" written on the bottom of his shoes....mebbe it was Leon?

A paycheck is a paycheck ...

Heh heh heh... that's a classic old boxing joke. A buddy of mine took some kind of white paint stick or something and did that to my shoes back in my Golden Gloves days, in high school. Can't remember if I won or lost that one. Didn't matter, though, no one ever got knocked out. We wore BIG gloves, like 12-16 ounces. It was more like a pillow fight...

[DWBOX2000]

Watching Tyson/Holyfield. Never in doubt.

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

People somehow forget Holyfield was better. Beat him twice easily. Watch “Chasing Tyson”. Just because one dresses in black, talked a lot of tough talk and knocked out a lot of lower lever fighters and has been’s, doesn’t really mean he’s really “The baddest man on the planet”. Unfortunately image is not always reality.

The problem with this analysis is that Holyfield never fought the true Tyson. "Post Prison" Tyson was not the same as "Pre Prison" Tyson. Additionally if I remember correctly, Tyson fought Holyfield shortly after serving his sentence and had a considerable amount of ring rust. Lastly, don't forget that Holyfield was a walking steroid factory, unlike Tyson who appeared to be natural. Holyfield was a light heavyweight at best but juiced his way up to heavyweight. The steroids, coupled with fighting a ring rust post prison Tyson, (without the allure of invincibility) tilted this a fight in Holyfields favor. This is why when we look back it is Tyson not Holyfield who is regarded as the superior fighter. Just look at how they both aged. Tyson is still a beast and looks like he has the same devastating power in the short clip, while Holyfield has lost a considerable amount of muscle and his punches seemed like baby punches compared to Tyson. Kinda what happens when you get off the juice.

[DWBOX2000]

Yes because Tyson ran from Holyfield for years, hence the name "Chasing Tyson".

Also Tyson had four fights post prison before Holyfield. Ring rust should have been gone. Holyfield had the boxing skills and mentality to beat him. He gets knocked out on his feet, keeps his composure and just keeps coming. Tyson get frustrated and starts biting.

My guess is that Tyson hit the beans as well.

Who did Tyson fight and beat that we look back and remember the name besides Michael Spinxs and Larry Holmes. Both well past their primes. The Larry Holmes that beat Ali would have destroyed Tyson. Tyson would have gotten frustrated, tried to box and just made things worse for himself.

Yes he did destroy a lot of fighters but I think it was the times and the media. You could see the fear in the fighters eyes before the match even started (Bruce Sheldon). He was really good, just not great.

Next someone will say Sugar Ray beat Hagler.

[Crowbob]

Sugar Ray beat Hagler.

Heehee.

Thing is, for Mike it only takes him one lucky shot at any moment in a bout and it’s lights out. Just that possibility alone gave him an edge.