Are some of our societal problems self inflicted?

[Tobra]

He was kidding Nick, or that is how I took it

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Bingo....If only enough voters could learn what the NEA, the national Education Association (teachers union) is really about...

Some are catching on, but most still think it's some benign group interested in education.

Teachers get fuuked over, up one side and down the other, by administration, student, parents, the system in general, you name it, and they would be subject to even greater abuse if it wasn't for union support (national and local). That is an observation based on 16 years in a Dallas ISD classroom (in what now seems like a former life ).

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Oh, they want respect...but..

Teachers teach the leftist agenda. The courses of publicly funded schools are modified to reflect leftist views. One example...our daughter's "Global Studies" class textbook flatly stated that the 2nd amendment doesn't give individuals the right to have arms...used the old "The militia mean the military" argument. She graduated high screw=all in '88.

This is a broad brush statement that is simply not accurate; teaching of a certain agenda is based entirely on a specific teacher's desire, or willingness to do so, and has nothing to do with union involvement. I know plenty of both hard right wing and hard left wing teachers in Dallas, that often tried to insert their political slants, but the vast majority are moderates and do not operate with some sort of one-sided agenda.

Originally Posted by cabmando

To start, this is not a political question. The question is based on my own observations as a 48 year old father of three who grew up in a two parent household. Thinking back to my childhood, I never would have considered calling the parent of a friend by their first name. I was taught to respect not only my elders but those who were considered an authority figure (teacher, principal, police....).

In thinking back to my kids (16, 18, 21 now) when they were younger, I remember having to correct some of their friends for referring to me by my first name. I've always taught my kids to be respectful of others and most certainly to be respectful of adults and those viewed as authority figures in society. I remember having a conversation several years ago with a teacher at a public school and her saying how disrespectful kids were. I asked at the time "why do you think that is". She said replied that some of the most disrespectful came from single parent households. I didn't dig much deeper into it from there.

Have we somehow gotten away from teaching kids to be respectful of adults and authority figures? And more importantly are we at this point because of the increased divorce rates and increase in the number of single parent households? As we've progressed as a society, have we actually regressed in some aspects?

Just some thoughts and PLEASE try not to bring politics into this.

Nick, I think it is natural for youth to act like d**ks, a-holes, and bisches in a mad-grab for attention and as an attempt to establish some sort of power or dominance, and the only reason that they are being more disrespectful now, is because we allow them to get away with it (we, as in all adults) - it is squarely on all of us.

Of course, we love to elect forever kids, that have built lives out of being d**ks, a-holes, and bisches, as our leaders, so there is that!

[livi]

Of course its our own doing. We are society. In this case its called postmodernism and it depicts the notion that facts, science, common sense and courtesy is of no importance. Only me, me, me, me and my feelings count.

[black73]

Originally Posted by cabmando

To start, this is not a political question. The question is based on my own observations as a 48 year old father of three who grew up in a two parent household. Thinking back to my childhood, I never would have considered calling the parent of a friend by their first name. I was taught to respect not only my elders but those who were considered an authority figure (teacher, principal, police....).

In thinking back to my kids (16, 18, 21 now) when they were younger, I remember having to correct some of their friends for referring to me by my first name. I've always taught my kids to be respectful of others and most certainly to be respectful of adults and those viewed as authority figures in society. I remember having a conversation several years ago with a teacher at a public school and her saying how disrespectful kids were. I asked at the time "why do you think that is". She said replied that some of the most disrespectful came from single parent households. I didn't dig much deeper into it from there.

Have we somehow gotten away from teaching kids to be respectful of adults and authority figures? And more importantly are we at this point because of the increased divorce rates and increase in the number of single parent households? As we've progressed as a society, have we actually regressed in some aspects?

Just some thoughts and PLEASE try not to bring politics into this.

I get it. Other people's children, can't stand them. If everyone would just be more like me and my children, the world would be a much better place!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cabmando

But to say that I am part of the problem or someone else who teaches their kids to be respectful adults and authority figures is the problem isn't really true. I haven't contributed to the deterioration.

You are part of society unless you are a hermit living in a cave alone. Society is the sum total of what we all collectively think and do.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Objectivity has become subjective making facts and truth meaningless, leading to dystopian tribalism. We have torn apart our foundation, the rational scheme of perception and a priori experience that guided this country for 200 years, over the last 30 years.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by black73

I get it. Other people's children, can't stand them. If everyone would just be more like me and my children, the world would be a much better place!

Ah yes... sarcasm... I'm not saying me, my generation or my kids are or would be the ideal. What I'm saying is, look around at what's going on in our world. I look around and I see people too self involved, people who don't have time for the kids they brought into this world, people looking for a reason to be offended. People today in general seem to be more on edge than at any time I can remember in my lifetime "don't push me cause I'm close to the edge"

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

You are part of society unless you are a hermit living in a cave alone. Society is the sum total of what we all collectively think and do.

I'm not questioning whether I'm part of society. I know that I am. I'm saying that some parts of society aren't functioning the way they should be. We're supposed to be a civilized society and yet it seems in some cases we're less civilized than we were years ago.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Teachers get fuuked over, up one side and down the other, by administration, student, parents, the system in general, you name it, and they would be subject to even greater abuse if it wasn't for union support (national and local). That is an observation based on 16 years in a Dallas ISD classroom (in what now seems like a former life ).

I think the argument that teachers have taken on the role of educator and parent is a valid argument. The advent of the absentee parent, I think, is a large part of our problem today with not just how the kids turn out as people but with our education system. I can remember my mom sitting at the table with me helping me with my homework. I think too many parents are too busy to help their kids today.

I know a troubled young girl who sadly feels that her mom loves their dogs more than she loves her. And dad? too busy with his band and work. Some parents just don't seem to have time for their kids.

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

This is a broad brush statement that is simply not accurate; teaching of a certain agenda is based entirely on a specific teacher's desire, or willingness to do so, and has nothing to do with union involvement. I know plenty of both hard right wing and hard left wing teachers in Dallas, that often tried to insert their political slants, but the vast majority are moderates and do not operate with some sort of one-sided agenda.

I'd say the school board has more to do with the slant than the teachers union.

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Nick, I think it is natural for youth to act like d**ks, a-holes, and bisches in a mad-grab for attention and as an attempt to establish some sort of power or dominance, and the only reason that they are being more disrespectful now, is because we allow them to get away with it (we, as in all adults) - it is squarely on all of us.

No doubt it's natural as they find themselves. Holy smokes was I a hot mess as a teen. I can't believe my dad didn't kick my ass sometimes. Luckily, he just worked it out of me. If I got out of hand, he'd wake me early on a Saturday morning and drag me to work with him and make me do some serious manual labor. It got worse if he knew I had been drinking the night before. I agree it's on all of us which is why if I see someone being disrespectful I'll call them out.

[craigster59]

Here's a good example......
https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-man-killed-by-friend-showing-off-shotgun-moments-after-asking-what-are-you-going-to-do-shoot-me

"Cook went to his friend Shea Harkins' house in Palm Harbor on Thursday night to play video games, the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office said.

Harkins, 26, told police the two were playing in his bedroom, and he left the room to retrieve his rifle, a Colt M4 he had been customizing....."

WTF? 26 years old and playing in his bedroom? At 26 I was already out of the house 9 years and out of the military 5 years.

[flatbutt]

I for one never demanded that my children's friends referred to me as Mr. I demanded that they treated me respectfully. Their attitude and behavior was how their respect for me was demonstrated. Things such as "please", "thank you", "may I" and the like were more important to me.

After all, isn't personal character more evident in what we do rather than what we say?

A part of our society's erosion is (IMO) due to not deserving the respect we think we've earned. Or at least insisting on respect from others that don't think we deserve it AND by our refusing to listen why they feel that way. This applies to all demographic groups.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by craigster59

WTF? 26 years old and playing in his bedroom? At 26 I was already out of the house 9 years and out of the military 5 years.

How about 30 years old. It's abnormal but not uncommon.

Same with me but not that structured. Vocational Technical schooling and ran a turret lathe for six hours at 16 after school. Full day Saturday. First house at 18. Got me an Opel GT. I did piss away a lot of time listening to music as a kid so maybe not that different. No firearms were ever discharged.

Opportunity existed though. I don't think pickins' are so easy these days.

An afterthought...there was no $$ allowance from the folks. My Dad sold me his 68 Chevy. Now, I did wreck it with a couple hundred left to pay that I kinda forgot about so kids will still be kids.

[Otter74]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Otter,
Not sure if that was directed towards me but No, not in this case. I have some really good friends who are in their mid to late 20's. All really good people and very respectful of others. "no sir, yes sir" type people.

Cabmando*,

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. As the OP, yes, in part, but not at you specifically; it was directed in response at the sentiment generally.

*Pictures invading forces of black cabriolets repelling down cliff faces at night

[DanielDudley]

This is one of those perennial conversations.

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

― Socrates

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned media and social media as influences on people's behavior. The media tends to shape a lot of our thoughts and attitudes, and social media certainly brings together outliers and fringe groups in greater numbers where they can freely converse and exchange thoughts and feelings.
I don't think people are really much different than they ever were. However, we have progressed so greatly in terms of populations and powers that our attitudes and actions tend to have far more sweeping consequences.

It is funny that we look at behavior and manners as fundamental problems of youth, and yet we are trying to keep this thread out of what might be a more appropriate forum because we are afraid the conversation will devolve. If we want to teach kids to act civilly and with respect, we need to model that behavior not as something children need to do, but as something we all need to do in he course of normal interaction. We are a microcosm, but we reflect the macrocosm.

What was that famous Pogo Quote?

[Por_sha911]

If you train a child in the way he should go when he is old he will not depart from it.
The boomer generation had parenting changes promoted by Dr Spock (NO not Mr, Doctor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Spock and IMO things went to Hell in a handbasket from there.

[group911@aol.co]

Originally Posted by widebody911

It seems each generation thinks it's all gone to hell once they reach the "get off my lawn" age.

This. Always has been and always will be this way.

As far as your need for respect, great people earn respect rather than expecting some phony gesture of respect.

[Bill Douglas]

A friend's son called me Sir. I joking told him off and said "I'm not THAT old LOL"

I remember when I was a very little boy I liked a good fun guy who was one of my parents friends and I insisted on calling him Stacey. My parents said "You can call him Roy, or you can call him Mr. Stacey, but not Stacey." I think I still called him Stacey.

I think Stacey, out of respect for umm Mr. Stacey, might be a good name for a pet.

[KFC911]

When I hear Mister C .... I still turn around to see if my dad is behind me . I'm just fine being called K .... a tennant's boy called me Mr. K because that's what his parents wanted.

So I say.... call me Matt....

I won't answer to Matt

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

This. Always has been and always will be this way.

As far as your need for respect, great people earn respect rather than expecting some phony gesture of respect.

So an older person with infinitely more life experience than a younger person needs to earn the younger person's respect? Dude, that's just nonsense. That older person earned that respect by paving the way for that younger person. This isn't about "great people" It's about people in general. And you don't need to be great to earn respect.

I respect several people on this forum not because they're "great people". Having knowledge of how to work on a car doesn't make someone a great person in my book. I respect them because their experience gives me reason to respect them even though I've never met them.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

This is one of those perennial conversations.

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

― Socrates

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned media and social media as influences on people's behavior. The media tends to shape a lot of our thoughts and attitudes, and social media certainly brings together outliers and fringe groups in greater numbers where they can freely converse and exchange thoughts and feelings.
I don't think people are really much different than they ever were. However, we have progressed so greatly in terms of populations and powers that our attitudes and actions tend to have far more sweeping consequences.

It is funny that we look at behavior and manners as fundamental problems of youth, and yet we are trying to keep this thread out of what might be a more appropriate forum because we are afraid the conversation will devolve. If we want to teach kids to act civilly and with respect, we need to model that behavior not as something children need to do, but as something we all need to do in he course of normal interaction. We are a microcosm, but we reflect the macrocosm.

What was that famous Pogo Quote?

My mistake in my OP and in some of my comments going forward is that I seem to have focused on younger people. These problems I mention in my OP doesn't just exist in younger people clearly.

PARF isn't the appropriate forum for this discussion because not everything is political. No doubt politics has an effect on society and its issues but before this world became hyper politicized things actually existed outside of the political spectrum. It's not political to say that we need to teach what were once considered basics like respecting your elders, respecting authority figures etc. We've been so successfully trained to fight for "our team" that when politics enters the discussion, being polite and respectful leaves the room. You've spent time on PARF and like I said I know I'm guilty of dragging a few threads there into the mud myself but typically every conversation ends up being an insult fest.

[group911@aol.co]

Big difference between respect and common courtesy. Everyone should be courteous to everyone else regardless their age or lot in life.
You have no right to expect anyone to respect you just because of your age or stature.
I can respect your gumption to stand up on the podium and demand respect of anyone you feel is inferior to you but I have no respect for anyone that feels entitled to such treatment without earning it.

Originally Posted by cabmando

So an older person with infinitely more life experience than a younger person needs to earn the younger person's respect? Dude, that's just nonsense. That older person earned that respect by paving the way for that younger person. This isn't about "great people" It's about people in general. And you don't need to be great to earn respect.

I respect several people on this forum not because they're "great people". Having knowledge of how to work on a car doesn't make someone a great person in my book. I respect them because their experience gives me reason to respect them even though I've never met them.