Are some of our societal problems self inflicted?
 

To start, this is not a political question. The question is based on my own observations as a 48 year old father of three who grew up in a two parent household. Thinking back to my childhood, I never would have considered calling the parent of a friend by their first name. I was taught to respect not only my elders but those who were considered an authority figure (teacher, principal, police....).

In thinking back to my kids (16, 18, 21 now) when they were younger, I remember having to correct some of their friends for referring to me by my first name. I've always taught my kids to be respectful of others and most certainly to be respectful of adults and those viewed as authority figures in society. I remember having a conversation several years ago with a teacher at a public school and her saying how disrespectful kids were. I asked at the time "why do you think that is". She said replied that some of the most disrespectful came from single parent households. I didn't dig much deeper into it from there.

Have we somehow gotten away from teaching kids to be respectful of adults and authority figures? And more importantly are we at this point because of the increased divorce rates and increase in the number of single parent households? As we've progressed as a society, have we actually regressed in some aspects?

Just some thoughts and PLEASE try not to bring politics into this.

3 words
The Great Society

Trying desperately not to PARF this up....

I agree some issues are self inflicted , it seems like just basic manners as an example have been lost . I don't know how many times over the years I have held a door open for a man or women and never a thank you . That's not how I was raised . I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of reasons but single parent homes is one of them . But on the flip side having two parents is no guarantee of success or a good kid turning into a good adult .

A child needs guidance and discipline and education to learn all the life skills needed to survive . How a parent or parents conduct themselves on a daily basis has a lot to do with a child being a success . But it's also a crap shoot , we have all seen bad kids come from good families and good kids come from bad families . We are creatures of our environment . Then throw in economic issues/gangs/drugs etc. etc. and a kid has a big mountain to climb to be a positive contributor to society .

Which societal problems are generally worsening in say the last 20 years?

Let's please try not to get this booted to PARF. I think it's a conversation worth having.

Our societal problems are all self inflicted - we are all, after all, the society.

The two elephants in the room are changes to basic education and the family dynamic in this country.

It would take a Kaizen mapping event to even begin the understand the erosion to the foundations o this country.

This discussion has to be moved to PARF or it is hollow - sorry.

In my experience, number of parents has nothing to do with the manners, disposition, or nehavior of offspring. I know of many children of single parent homes who have grown up to be productive, kind, and respectable members of society. I also know of children of two parent households who have not grown up to be paragons of society.

Children model the bahavior of their parents and immediate family. Toxic parents and families often result in toxic children, although occasioonally, children from toxic situations somehow break the mold.

Everyone, regardless of age, deserves respect until they prove otherwise by their behavior. Just because you're older or in a position of authortity doesn't mean you deserve respect regardless of what type of person you are.

The question you're asking has been asked by people since time immemorial. Socrates said:

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

Ditto.

Btw my kids have wonderful and respectful friends, I tell them to call me Matt. My kids default to calling parents Mr/Mrs, but I can’t think of any that also don’t go by their first names. Mostly Catholic school kids where being respectful to your elders is still taught.

I really don't want it to go there because it will end up the way all threads there end up. Admittedly I'm guilty of driving a few there myself... But I think this conversation can be had without the "liberal/conservative... dem/rep" insult slinging that will undoubtedly take place if it moves. If it can't be had without things ending up political then we can add that to the list of things that are wrong with our society.. Everything ends up political today.

It's one thing to say "Call me Matt" after they've called you "mr...." it's entirely different to have the presume it's okay to call you by your first name.

Probably gonna get us booted but that's the truth. I know several women who didn't get married to the father of their children until after the kids had graduated from college. No joke. "Single" mother with modest income qualifies the kids for grants. Married couple with combined middle class income (for the location) doesn't get them qualified for grants.

Bingo....If only enough voters could learn what the NEA, the national Education Association (teachers union) is really about...

Some are catching on, but most still think it's some benign group interested in education.

Why would a teachers union want teachers to be treated with less respect?

I get it, and I will not provide any fodder to push this to PARF.

This is not overtly political when starting the analysis of prospective causes, causal relationships and direct contributions to the decline of our society.

Books have been written on the rise and fall of societies. The clear juggernaut has and will always be human nature: "Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short" to quote Thomas Hobbes' poem Leviathan.

Despite history, the search for finding the better angels of our nature without acknowledging the bitter truth of the basics of our human nature continues.

Utopia is a cigar: https://uncrate.com/samuel-adams-utopias-cigar/

These sound familiar, the five really good suggestions for society?

Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

The 6th would be shut up, get an education, work hard and don't have children out of wedlock.

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Agree with one exception - it is just not in this country. Societal issues started long before I was born and aren't exclusive to the USA.

I agree. This is why I love to talk to older people and ask them what changes in society they've seen over their lifetime. I asked a guy in his 80's that once and then sat intently as he talked about his views of how society got from where it was to where it is over his lifetime.

Oh, they want respect...but..

Teachers teach the leftist agenda. The courses of publicly funded schools are modified to reflect leftist views. One example...our daughter's "Global Studies" class textbook flatly stated that the 2nd amendment doesn't give individuals the right to have arms...used the old "The militia mean the military" argument. She graduated high screw=all in '88.

It seems each generation thinks it's all gone to hell once they reach the "get off my lawn" age.

&lt;borderline PARF&gt;
Want to piss off one of the MAGA crowd? As them to what point in history to which they would like to rewind, and then point out the technical - and more importantly, social - advances since that point in time.
&lt;/borderline PARF&gt;

I was skimming through one of the neighborhood groups on Facebook, and some lady was asking for advice and used the term "BD" - it took my a bit to figure out WTF she was talking about.

Technical advances like social media that tends to erode the mind and get younger folks to "follow" an influencer?

that claim was made about TV in the 1950s


pwds - stop parfing this up

Not sure how social media today compares to tv in the 50's. I just know from experience that it's influence is WAY too strong.

And I didn't know they had "influencers" on a 50's tv show??

I might pick violent video games as the biggest problem - no real data on it tho

in the '50s they were called "advertisers" see vance Packard's book The Hidden Persuaders

IDK, it just seems like with Twitter, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat and so many others that kids are bombarded with so many things. Not to mention with the access the internet provides to information in general and not necessarily good information.

I guess what I mean is, social media today seems to be something that makes kids think less and "follow" more.

My friend Doug Anecdote was raised by an abusive single parent muskrat and he’s turned out fine.

If we’re talking percentages a child raised in the most mediocre of two parent households still has an advantage.

Doug Anecdote, good one

Yes, 100% self inflicted.

I stated my opinion which is based on my life experience. That is all. I don't have the time or patience to research and write a dissertation on the subject. Obviously, a lot of members have their own opinions and feelings that won't change one way or another.

I guess what I mean by self inflicted is, have we gotten a bit lax in enforcing things that were once commonly enforced like teaching kids respect for others? You see a lot of lip service about "respect" but are we really, truly teaching it to kids?

I was told that I had a problem with authority figures when I was a teen. While I'd argue with some, I never disrespected them. And the point that Matt makes about telling his kids friends to "call me Matt", doesn't that break down what should be a societal sign of respect?

Just look at what the media is spilling onto society. A bit one-sides? You think? Oh yeah, the schools, they have an axe to grind against, (insert what you like in here) it doesn't matter if its wrong. When was it ok for a kid to go up to a teacher and say, F you, and get away with it? Oh, poor Johnny has home issues therefore he's acting up. Stop making excuses for them. All those social media BS has no bull elephants regulating what's said, right or wrong. They pick up on that. No accountability for wrong doing. Its easy to blame others then to looking at self and ask, what did I do wrong to cause this? I worry like hell for my kids. So yeah, its self inflicted. Don't even get me started with respect to elders. I think many of us have lost our ways and influenced heavily by the media, society or ...

That experience would be considered anecdotal. It is very well established that children from single parent homes are at a significant disadvantage.

Let's not bash him for writing what he has seen. A lot of my OP is from my own observations.

I was going to reply to hbueno that I'd guess for each normal, well adjusted, polite person he can name from single parent home, I could name one that was the opposite. All anecdotal but still appreciate the input.

Hint: it's not them, it's you.

I have a suspicion that kids who where abused by "authority" figures developed a "problem" with authority figures............

I had a LOT of respect for adults who behaved like adults.............. and I hated, with a passion, those who ruled by intimidation.

I am old now............ and I still have a visceral reaction to loudmouthed jackasses.

As for the rest of it?

this thread is heading to PARF anyway, so it might as well be said....... liberals made the economics of being a lazy parasite, attractive. And as a result society has a LOT more lazy parasites.

Otter,
Not sure if that was directed towards me but No, not in this case. I have some really good friends who are in their mid to late 20's. All really good people and very respectful of others. "no sir, yes sir" type people.

Maynard G Krebs was a funny beatnik that appeared in millions of homes. He was a slug that was idolized. Late 50's into 60's.

Social media is THE big one that slams down hard a distinct and favorable appearing casual disrespect for others.

Stuffing a kid into their room with a Nintendo, PlayStation, X-Box, etc for six-ten hours a day is the cheapest, most pathetic babysitter ever. To a single parent, this is the greatest thing ever. They now have some space to determine where to spread their legs next or bury their sausage or get high/drunk. Priorities.

Applies to couples as well, and I am guilty of this "luxury".

This was my first reaction to the question. Paul saved me some typing. YES, what he said.

But to say that I am part of the problem or someone else who teaches their kids to be respectful adults and authority figures is the problem isn't really true. I haven't contributed to the deterioration.