when the beds run out, it doesn't much matter of the rhetoric of how you catch it, if you should wear a mask, if you don't believe it's here, if more testing = more cases, really doesn't matter. I read an article where the head doc tried to explain that ppl behaviour is driven by the aversion and resisting to being told what to do rather than looking at it from a safety angle.

Since that weekend, cases and hospitalizations in several states — especially Texas, California, Arizona and Florida — soared.

In the last two days, Texas has hit its highest number of new cases with 10,028 on Tuesday and 9,979 on Wednesday, easily beating the previous record of 8,258, according to The Washington Post’s database. As of Monday, 8,700 people in the state are hospitalized with COVID-19 and doctors anticipate that they will soon run out of hospital beds.

RELATED: At Least 56 Florida Hospital ICUs Have Hit Capacity as Coronavirus Cases Soar

That's already happening in Florida, where 56 intensive care units in the state are now full as of Tuesday. And an additional 35 hospital ICUs have 10 percent or fewer beds remaining. Florida saw 9,989 new cases on Wednesday, increasing the total to 223,783 since the start of the pandemic, and the state has the third-most cases in the country, after New York and California.

California, the most populous state in the country, was initially handing the COVID-19 pandemic well compared to New York. But after beaches, restaurants and bars reopened around Memorial Day, cases soared. On Wednesday, the state hit its highest daily total yet with 11,694 new infections, breaking the record they set two days prior of 11,529.

And in Arizona, new cases have started trending downwards, with 3,520 reported on Wednesday, below the record of 4,433 set on July 3. However, hospitals are nearly full, and the state had its lowest-ever number of available ICU beds on Tuesday. More than 1 in 4 people in Arizona are testing positive for the virus.

This is the part I don't get. Many states hit hard early mandated lockdowns with masks and social distancing and every one of them has come through the worst of CV and are safely opening up again.

And many states saw those examples and just said, F that, won't happen to us, we're free. And look where they are now. sure, they don't have the population or population density or travel flow of the early states, but they've been hit hard given their own demographics. Which was completely avoidable. Just don't get that.

When the experts have said repeatedly its mitigation, not prevention people believe them. In addition, stories are emerging that describe hyper-vigilant people getting it. Also, nobody seems to agree on whether the rise in cases is due to increased testing or even whether or not the death rate is rising. When, allegedly, 99% of the infected population is asymptomatic or experiences mild symptoms, wearing masks seems kinda goofy. I wear one because I’m old and feeble plus I look better in a mask.

So you want other States to kill record numbers of their at-risk people so they can have lower death in the future?

Seriously, the State of New Your, IF it were it's own country would have thee highest percentage of death of any other county in the world. By far.

But sure, let's pretend that it's NY's mask guidelines that slowed the death.

Oh wait. New Jersey recently overtook NY for the top spot of deaths as a percentage of population.

NY still has 2x + more deaths (at 32,343) but also more population. NJ is second most total deaths.

BTW NY65912, I'm glad to see you still posting. --good job on avoiding this bug; especially in an area hit so hard.

That said, NY does not have any particularly effective policies.

TX is in the news for their huge spike.

Their 7 day rolling average recently shot up to 66 deaths per day.

The State of NY is down to 26 deaths per day. (7 day rolling average)

IOW The State of NY is down to what has been typical for the State of Texas.

(note the Y-axis scales)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594351328.JPG


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594351328.JPG

And why is TX shooting up?

They've had mask policy...

Also a heat wave that keeps people inside under AC.

So many variables...

At the beginning of this mess I think everyone was surprised and taken off guard as to how to contain it. NYS did not see it coming until it was too late, like most states. I don't want to PARF this thread with going into how the federal government screwed up. We could have and should see this coming and done more to stop it or mitigate it coming to our shores early on
than when we did.

What I am suggesting is that now NY has flattened the curve it is time for other states to follow the same guidelines that NY did to lower it's numbers.

Simply put, the guidelines do work. An example, Disney World in Fla is opening, maybe not such a good idea. I know that people love their "freedom" or thought of being free from government mandate but there are times that one must do the math so to speak and follow best practices.

I am not comfortable here in NYC still. I am fearful of a second wave. Anything is possible with this beast. I too am happy that I am still posting. As of 7/9/20 the new number of cases in NYC is 279 and 23 new deaths in a population of 8M. We are testing like made here and tracing back contacts. I think this is only possible due to the lower infection rates. It "feels" as though we are starting to get a handle on it, but....

Best of Luck to you all.

You just did.
We have a PARF thread on that https://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/1062569-why-no-riots-new-york-after-covid-cuomo.html (the royal screw-up was your governor's pushing hospital patients out to nursing homes. to make room).

Back on topic. (masks)



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594392754.JPG

"And why is TX shooting up?

They've had mask policy..."

Are you deliberately trying to mislead, or simply have no idea what you're talking about?

TX governor Abbott ordered a no-mask policy. He prohibited cities and counties from requiring masks. Only in July did he finally switch to a mask policy. But he let counties opt out, and nearly 80 counties are doing so, or refusing to enforce it.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/02/texas-mask-order-greg-abbott-coronavirus/

"The mask order represents a remarkable turnaround for Abbott, who has long resisted a statewide requirement, even as the coronavirus situation has gotten worse than ever over the past couple of weeks in Texas. When he began allowing Texas businesses to reopen this spring, Abbott prohibited local governments from punishing people who do not wear masks. As cases began to rise earlier this month, he clarified that cities and counties could order businesses to mandate that customers wear masks."

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/09/texas-mask-order-enforcement/

"When Gov. Greg Abbott issued a statewide executive order requiring Texans to wear masks in public, he gave counties the opportunity to opt out if they have a low number of active coronavirus cases.

A week later, 78 counties have taken him up on that offer. And a handful of other local governments have insisted that they won't enforce the order even though they don't qualify for the opt-out provision. Officials cited a desire to preserve personal freedoms or concerns about enforcement."

finally someone with authority weighed in on masks for the final word. We can close this thread now. Bill Nye the Science Guy... wooo hoooo!

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/us/bill-nye-shows-how-face-masks-slow-the-spread-of-coronavirus-its-a-matter-of-life-or-death/ar-BB16AjVO?li=AAggNb9

YESSSSSSSSSSSS !!!!

Finally.

A definitive answer.

Like guns, I think a mask should be the last line of defense when everything else fails, not the 1st. Avoid crowds and parties, avoid enclosed public spaces, maintain physical distancing from others. We get infected from other people who are not in our household so avoid close contact with them. If you can't do these things, wear a mask. It is not a perfect solution or even a great solution, just a far better solution than no mask.

... Waiting for Island to trot out his "puny bandana" or particle size strawmen that no one cares about and give them a sound beating in 3...2...1...

You don't want to then you do.

Perfect.

You are completely wrong, btw. I don't want to PARF this up, but...

I glad you are well.

staying on topic of maks.... not guns... geez you want to get the ole hair up on the back? aren't we there now with mask as the greater of the pop didn't listen and threw a hissy fit tantrum?

I’m sitting in the Giant parking lot in California, Maryland. The place is very busy.

I am waiting on my buddy to finish his shopping for the week. We do this most Fridays.

Everyone is masked, which he tells me, even though he is wobbling towards the finish line, cuts into his “eye ball liberty”.

F’ing Navy guys 😎

Fräu Whitmer just signed an executive order to commence Monday commanding everyone* in Michigan wear a cloth covering over their eyes and nose in ANY public place indoors and in any crowded public place outdoors.

$500. fine for first infraction.






*there are religious and health exemptions

wear a cloth covering over their eyes ?

That ought to make for a fun commute.

per the link


Ah, so then frontline health care workers can use any mask that doesn't allow the wearer to blow out a candle.

Tight logic there.

Tight like the weave of cheese cloth.

ha!

Well, we know for a fact masks don't work when you have to take them off to talk !

The bisches wearing the canister masks must be selfish bastages as those things only protect the wearer (aka - they can shoot COVID all over nearby people via the exhaust vent on the bottom of the chin area! Those bisches should be mask-shamed on Twitter!!!

My MIL got mask-shamed today. At a hospital.

She has some N95's (made in the USA) that have the cool-breath valve.

Hospital said n'no, you can't wear that because with that valve it only protects you, not me (sez hospital guy wearing his own mask)

She is at very high risk, BTW. I suppose hospitals like to have more sick people. If they can get her on a vent, 39k baby! (POS mask for you! But at least your in a hospital where germs can't exist.)

^^^

The attempts at mask shaming, especially in a situation like that, are really something - some will take any opportunity to attempt to make others feel like morons in an effort to feel righteous.

Very stupid meme. The virus doesn't fly around by itself 200 nm diameter. It is suspended in spit and comes out of your pie hole in droplets 5-500 um in diameter. That' is 1000 times bigger than the virus and it is very much big enough to be caught by and reduced in number by a cloth mask.

That said, before I sign off here again, the best protection you have is staying the hell away from other people. Unfortunately people here where I live, where the virus is coming back pretty strong, think that wearing a face mask is going to keep everyone safe, where it would be a lot better if they would just stay the hell home.

G

Situation easily avoidable by hospital staff politely asking her to mount their mask over her N95, or just using the hospital mask, whichever the patient prefers. Perhaps a call to the hospital admin is in order.

If you gave her the N95, then you probably should have seen that coming. If not, live and learn. Not making fun. I get it. It's frustrating.
Since COVID, I've really struggled with infection control procedures in almost every place I've been in. Strict standards in some areas, or non compliance with some rules, and complete lack of knowledge about others. Stand here, hold your left leg in the air, jump three times, etc...well... okay... sure...if it makes you feel safer. I've only been in one place so far that checked all the boxes. A hospital? A medical office? Brewery? Restaurant? Grocery Store? No. It was a hardware store.


I've always had to struggle with that, and remind myself to go with their program, as dumb as it may seem, not be a douche (especially dealing with employees just doing their job and expected to uphold a company policy), and not get upset. If their methods don't protect/or even endanger me, I need to step back and remind myself, that ultimately, I'm the one who walked in their door, and my own safety is my responsibility. If I can't ensure my own safety, I leave. I'm finding myself driving up to places, looking inside, and thinking "foook dat- I'm out of here" Probably done it at least five times in the last week or two.

Easier said than done.

I need a car battery today. Not looking forward to it. "Stay safe?" hell no. "Stay Calm" is more like it. Store will have some BS sign stating they are committed to everyone's safety. 1/2 the people won't be wearing mask, the other half wearing masks ineffectively, overcrowded, completely disregarding social distancing, and then I guarantee the staff will grab my credit card with their dirty hands or some well soiled gloves, and provide me with a dirty pen, and even hold the damn battery for me thinking they are helping. Want to really help me? Open the GD front door so I don't have to touch it. Better yet, keep the front door open to circulate in new fresh air for the benefit of everyone inside. Am I scared? No. Just p.o.'d at all the rigamarole? of it all (Jim Crackery?) ;)

I'd have said "protecting me is kinda the point"

Then you don't understand why masks are worn Nick. Masks capture droplets from YOU. That's why they are worn. You wear them to protect other people.

I'm visiting in the People's Republic of Michigan where 95% of State subjects dutifully wear their masks ... often inside their cars, doing yard work, or out for walks through empty parks :rolleyes: :D Despite some of the tightest lockdown provisions in the country and religious mask-wearing, cases are spiking (as they have been in California and other states) and Reichmarschall Half-Whit has once again closed down bars (except in the area of her vacation home) and will implement a mask requirement Monday with $$ fines for violators (unless you are participating in a regime-approved protest/looting activity).

As my family doctor said last week, the Chinese Virus is the most over-hyped health 'crisis' of all time. If you're under 70 years of age, your chance of dying from it is in the 1000ths of 1%. But math is hard and even those odds are enough to put the fear of Gaia in some people's minds. Under 50? Almost no chance. Over 70? You're still under a 1% chance. And these figures assume the inflated CDC body bag count is accurate. And for this, we've ruined the economy and caused countless health problems and other deaths due to lack of regular screenings and fear of going to emergency rooms or calling 911? We've lost all perspective.

Haha, no humour... reference to the science guy was satirical. Can't explain it if y'all didn't get it the first time around. ...


up in beer country, the hoosiers try to keep it simple... read this in the article this am. the artilcle is here https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/coronavirus-can-be-airborne-but-thats-not-how-it-typically-spreads-experts/ar-BB16BKUO?li=AAggNb9 and a portion is below:

What this means for everyday life

When it comes to daily life, experts say Canadians shouldn't get tripped up on the word "airborne" and should continue doing what they're doing ⁠— namely, physical distancing, wearing a mask in enclosed spaces and practising good hand hygiene.


On the public health level, the goal is to make the masses aware of the "most common way that COVID-19 is going to be transmitted," Kaul said.

"Let's not focus on preventing the very occasional transmission event that may happen through aerosol spread ⁠— let's focus on the great majority that's going to be transmitted through droplets."

Chakrabarti agrees and says we do not need to be overly concerned about aerosol transmission at this time.

"We know that even if there is a theoretical possibility of there being aerosol that is in the air that has some COVID-19 particles in it, it's irrelevant because what we've been doing is not airborne precautions," Chakrabarti said.

"And it's working."

Did you miss the part where she was wearing a N95 shaun? Studies show that the N95's will protect you from getting the virus but they aren't being suggested for general use because of their use by medical professionals.

Nick, she was wearing a mask that allowed droplets out of the mask. This isn't rocket science. I honestly don't even know why you posted that.

Because she was protecting herself which is the main goal Shaun. Protecting others is secondary and if she's is a person at risk of serious complications or death from the virus, she was wearing the right mask, especially when she was in a hospital.

If I don't have it and want to protect myself from getting it, I'm wearing a N95 mask or better. She was doing the right thing.

NO! Seriously, this is why this country is so F'ed up. Masks are for protecting other people! They capture the droplets. Jesus Christ I can't believe people don't understand masks by now.

You wear a mask to protect others from your droplets.

I'm building decklid grilles today, don't have time for nonsense. Go do some googling.

You might do the same since you're wrong Shaun... N95's are proven to protect you from getting the virus. You are wrong Shaun. I know you won't admit it because that's what you do... but you're wrong.

I'll help you understand with some links but here's a quote from the Mayo Clinic. Tell them how wrong they are Shuan. Send em and email!
N95 mask offers more protection than a surgical mask does because it can filter out both large and small particles when the wearer inhales. As the name indicates, the mask is designed to block 95% of very small particles.

https://www.mdvip.com/about-mdvip/blog/which-type-face-mask-can-protect-you-covid-19
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html

The biggest argument against the general public wearing N95 is that it reduces the supply for medical professionals. But again, if her goal was to protect herself, as it rightly was, she was wearing the right mask.

On the topic of hospitals and masks, I was at a hospital as the driver for a relative having a procedure. I walk in with my mask on, they take my temp, we go to the department for the procedure, I immediately notice to people in the waiting room with their masks worn below their noses. I told the nurse, "I'll wait in my car, call me when they're out of recovery"

But I don't get mask wearing according to Shaun because I understand what mask protects the wearer and what mask should be worn to reduce the spread of the virus.

Of course it does. It replicates in the lungs, and leaves the lungs (shedding.) If that viral shedding air exits your nose just where does it pick up saliva?

Also, are you saying that you know the smallest diameter that CV will ever 'fly around' as? If you do please post it.

One more thing, if an infected person sneezes on the outside of your cloth mask would you feel like that would be fine? That excess moisture would stay with the virus always, and never allow any virus thru?

I mean, if what you are insisting on is true hospitals everywhere are no longer dependent on n95 and better masks.