Don't know that it's fair to call them spoiled brats. Some folks just don't trust the government collecting data on them. I can understand that.

Thanks.

So they keep the doors shut to the ROW indefinitely now?

Or does mask-wearing have them protected enough that they can safely exist in the world?

#Sweden Did It Wrong

Eventually, even the blind squirrel finds a nut.

Not at all. Most are open to travel to their country with restrictions, depending on which country they are coming from. A traveler from New Zealand might be able to enter freely since C19 has been eradicated there, while a traveler from the US might have to quarantine for 2 weeks.

https://kr.usembassy.gov/022420-covid-19-information/

This statement may be true, but for reasons other than a cultural proclivity to don masks when the biannual pandemic escapes from the local virus factory, wet market, or whatever.

COVID19 is in the SARS family of viruses, so prior exposure to SARS could potentially have primed the immune systems of many Asian residents to be able to cope with COVID19 unlike those in the West.


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Previous exposure to the family of viruses may be a piece of this puzzle along with rapid test/contact trace/quarantine protocols.

Emerging data from central Africa suggests a high covid infection rate yet an extremely low rate of serious illness and death. Far lower than the most advanced country, South Africa and no one can explain it. One theory is that these people have been exposed to all kinds of disease since birth and if a virus was going to kill them they died under 5 yrs old.

Perhaps living in abject poverty with limited sanitation they have developed a very powerful innate immunity that protects them when 1st world countries get hit hard with disease. The situation in South America is very different and Peru, Brazil, and Bolivia are getting hit pretty hard. More unknown unknowns with this Wuhan flu.

Here's Fl.

All we did was flatten out the initial months of the outbreak.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597515007.jpg

That's all you can do. We've known from early on (cruise line studies, Oakland, Boston homeless, etc. ) that the virulence was high, but mortality relatively low. But thanks to the media and our government(s), we've panicked and taken a more damaging lockdown (and theatrical) approach.

Best course of action would have been (and remains!) to not lock down en mass, allow the healthy people to be exposed, and do your best to sequester / protect the elderly and immuno-compromised. That's how you achieve herd immunity and eliminate a virus that's not otherwise going to decimate the healthy.

I get that we didn't know that in February/March, but by May/June, it was pretty obvious if one bothered to look at the data.

This fear needs to end. People need to go to work and kids need to go to school. To do otherwise, is madness.

Positive tests aren't the key indicator. Follow the death rate (and local Healthcare capacity) to determine risk.

Sweden got it right. And the only thing they could have done better would have been to protect the elderly - - but that's hard to do ad the elderly are tended to by the healthy, mobile young that you want to expose. Nursing homes need PPE on the level of hospitals for events like this.

Note that I'm sympathetic to the working immuno compromised that should otherwise not go to school, work, or crowded places. Accommodation should be made for them. But restricting the vast majority of the population in a fruitless hope of hiding from the virus is the wrong strategy for this virus. The data shows that.

And I'm thankful this wasn't The One. We were told it was a Cat 5, but we got a Tropical Storm (maybe Cat 1). This continued fear-mongering could make the populace less sensitive to future threats just as its done with hurricane threats.

that could only work if this virus allowed herd immunity to BE achieved

nothing suggest yet that it can be, and some data indicates it cannot be achieved

Faucci said something along the lines of people who get the cold often having antibodies that help them fight off this virus. Don't remember where I saw that, but I remember reading it recently.

Well, I suppose we could start by considering the Swedish data/experience.

How do YOU explain the recent streak of no material COVID deaths in Sweden despite no lockdowns? Please explain your theory.

Also note that similarly low death rates are now commonly seen in other areas that once "burned bright".

Still too many unknown unknowns with this thing. In most of Europe covid seems to be dying out and death rates are falling rapidly. Parts of Africa are experiencing high death rates while others very low. South America is generally seeing high death rates. I don't think anyone has clear answers yet and herd immunity from widespread infection does not explain it. Check back in 2 weeks and there will be new findings.

what is your back ground in immunology? I need to know where to start

Appeal to authority. Nice try. Don't worry about me keeping up.

Here's an authority for you (credit to LeakySeals): https://medium.com/@vernunftun...veryone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809

Give that a read and let us know if you're still an immunity-denier.

...an immunity-denier

ZZZzzziiiiininnnnnnng..... :D

it was a serious question

if your background was high enough I'd hand you off to a friend who did research in molecular immunology at Harvard med, and sees pts. at Boston Women's


somehow I don't think your background warrant that however

Well no, I'm not a gynecologist either, but I'll take a look.

Does your friend have any available materials on why Sweden did it wrong and/or has yet to reach herd immunity? I'd love to read them.

Porsche driver? Ask your friend to come post here!

"background"

https://www.biospectrumasia.com/news/26/16310/singapore-uncovers-sars-cov-2-specific-t-cell-immunity.html

A Singapore study has uncovered the presence of virus-specific T cell immunity in people who recovered from COVID-19 and SARS, as well as some healthy study subjects who had never been infected by either virus. The T cells, along with antibodies, are an integral part of the human immune response against viral infections due to their ability to directly target and kill infected cells.

The study by scientists from Duke-NUS Medical School, in close collaboration with the National University of Singapore (NUS) Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, Singapore General Hospital (SGH) and National Centre for Infectious Diseases (NCID) was published in Nature. The findings suggest infection and exposure to coronaviruses induces long-lasting memory T cells, which could help in the management of the current pandemic and in vaccine development against COVID-19.

The team tested subjects who recovered from COVID-19 and found the presence of SARS-CoV2-specific T cells in all of them, which suggests that T cells play an important role in this infection. Importantly, the team showed that patients who recovered from SARS 17 years ago after the 2003 outbreak, still possess virus-specific memory T cells and displayed cross-immunity to SARS-CoV-2.

“Our team also tested uninfected healthy individuals and found SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells in more than 50 percent of them. This could be due to cross-reactive immunity obtained from exposure to other coronaviruses, such as those causing the common cold, or presently unknown animal coronaviruses. It is important to understand if this could explain why some individuals are able to better control the infection,” said Professor Antonio Bertoletti, from Duke-NUS’ Emerging Infectious Diseases (EID) programme, who is the corresponding author of this study.

Associate Professor Tan Yee Joo from the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at NUS Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine and Joint Senior Principal Investigator, Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology, A*STAR added, “We have also initiated follow-up studies on the COVID-19 recovered patients, to determine if their immunity as shown in their T cells persists over an extended period of time. This is very important for vaccine development and to answer the question about reinfection.”

“T cells play an important role in the immune response against viral infections and should be assessed for their role in combating SARS-CoV-2, which might bring us a step closer to creating an effective vaccine,” said Associate Professor Jenny Low, Senior Consultant, Department of Infectious Diseases, SGH, and Duke-NUS’ EID programme.

“NCID was heartened by the tremendous support we received from many previous SARS patients for this study. Their contributions, 17 years after they were originally infected, helped us understand mechanisms for lasting immunity to SARS-like viruses, and their implications for developing better vaccines against COVID-19 and related viruses,” said Dr Mark Chen I-Cheng, Head of the NCID Research Office.

The team will be conducting a larger study of exposed, uninfected subjects to examine whether T cells can protect against COVID-19 infection or alter the course of infection. They will also be exploring the potential therapeutic use of SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/1061899-epidemiologist-no-one-listened.html

^^^ Excellent post and reference ^^^.

Also worth noting that the common COVID PCR tests look for virus fragments, not the specific T cell immunity referenced in the above.

And having such T cell immunity may limit virus reproduction to the point of being undetectable on the PCR test. Thus testing negative does not mean that one has not been exposed nor that one is remains susceptible to the virus. Hence, the "positive" test rate amongst the population likely understates the true rate of exposure, and perhaps vastly so.

As hospitalizations and mortality drops, one can assume increasing herd immunity.