Expensive Week

[red-beard]

Broke Down, bought new air conditioners. Some installers are insane. House has 2 complete systems, one up (3.5 Ton) and one down (4 Ton).

The Furnaces and Evaporator coils looked like some children installed them. Complete hack jobs. This was the house contractor!

The units in the house were a "mix master". Originally (mostly) York Components when new, with a fly-by-night coil. Supposedly 12 SEER. The condensers failed after about 7 years and I replaced with 13 SEER units. One of the EVAP coils failed at about 4 years and I think they covered about 25% of the repair (coil itself).

Downstairs system developed condensate issues. The drain pain rusted away. And as I was having repair/replace bids on Tuesday/Wednesday, the upstairs condenser failed.

(Side note: While diagnosing the upstairs unit tripping breaker, I noted a flash in the wrong part of the electrical panel. My 150A main was sparking/arcing! )

Out goes the crappy single stage mix-master, in goes well matched, well installed "middle road" 2-stage units.

I had quotes for single stage from just under $10K for 2 units (4 ton and 3.5 ton) to $23K. 2 stage from $12K to 26K and true Variable speed from $19K to $28K. Most of the high bidders were the usual suspects, Trane and Carrier. I would not entertain any bids from the low end groups (Goodman, etc.) and only RHEEM for the middle of the road.

I went with the Better RHEEM units, (RA17 Communicating, 2 stage). I'll end up with a $500 Tax Credit (woo-hoo?). I expect about a 40% reduction in Air Conditioning energy consumption.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Broke Down, bought new air conditioners. Some installers are insane. House has 2 complete systems, one up (3.5 Ton) and one down (4 Ton).

The Furnaces and Evaporator coils looked like some children installed them. Complete hack jobs. This was the house contractor!

The units in the house were a "mix master". Originally (mostly) York Components when new, with a fly-by-night coil. Supposedly 12 SEER. The condensers failed after about 7 years and I replaced with 13 SEER units. One of the EVAP coils failed at about 4 years and I think they covered about 25% of the repair (coil itself).

Downstairs system developed condensate issues. The drain pain rusted away. And as I was having repair/replace bids on Tuesday/Wednesday, the upstairs condenser failed.

(Side note: While diagnosing the upstairs unit tripping breaker, I noted a flash in the wrong part of the electrical panel. My 150A main was sparking/arcing! )

Out goes the crappy single stage mix-master, in goes well matched, well installed "middle road" 2-stage units.

I had quotes for single stage from just under $10K for 2 units (4 ton and 3.5 ton) to $23K. 2 stage from $12K to 26K and true Variable speed from $19K to $28K. Most of the high bidders were the usual suspects, Trane and Carrier. I would not entertain any bids from the low end groups (Goodman, etc.) and only RHEEM for the middle of the road.

I went with the Better RHEEM units, (RA17 Communicating, 2 stage). I'll end up with a $500 Tax Credit (woo-hoo?). I expect about a 40% reduction in Air Conditioning energy consumption.

Sounds like my house, everything here is still running well( 2x Rheem like yours) but my HVAC contractor suggested that I think about replacement and adding a UV filter

I know nothing about AC

Whats the diff between 1 stage and 2?

Tell us more about the tax credit

[masraum]

Well, mixed feelings, right. Expensive, but a better setup, and you'll be saving money monthly.

I have a buddy that had everything but the heat replaced in his home in Magnolia this week to the tune of $13k.

The AC in our apt went out earlier this year. When I realized, I called the office. They brought up a temporary indoor unit that kept the apt perfectly comfy, and then the maintenance guys replaced the coils about 2-3 hours later. Total cost $0. Apt living has it's perks.

Back when we had a home, I learned a lot about HVAC. Yes, most AC contractors seem to be hacks. I'm sure there are some good ones, but they aren't the ones that we ever found.

[Tobra]

I had a pretty good A/C guy out on Lake Conroe, but I think he is dead.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Sounds like my house, everything here is still running well( 2x Rheem like yours) but my HVAC contractor suggested that I think about replacement and adding a UV filter

I know nothing about AC

Whats the diff between 1 stage and 2?

Tell us more about the tax credit

Single Stage is on/off, standard system.

Two Stage, it starts up at about 65% and then switches to Full if the temp is more than two degrees off. More advanced system can also dehumidify by running low speed for a long time.

Variable Speed is like Two stage, except 40% to 110% capacity and very small increments. Even better humidity control.

Humid areas really benefit from the Two Stage and Variable Speed systems.

Tax Credit is $300 per unit, maximum $500 if the SEER/Components are right. Meh. $500 on $12K.

[mgatepi]

I had a complete new system installed about 10 years ago, 16 seer variable speed. IT was 10K......I remember when I first opened the panel about 2 years after installation, I was shocked. The wiring looked like it had been installed by a complete amateur. Just a huge rats nest of wires with nothing labeled.....and this was a Trane high end system....

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by masraum

Well, mixed feelings, right. Expensive, but a better setup, and you'll be saving money monthly.

My electric bill in the "Winter" is about $100 per month. And in the middle of summer is a bit over $300. I expect to reduce my summer bill by about $80 per month. And overall about $500 per year. Really wanted the Variable speed unit, but I couldn't justify 50% more cost.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by mgatepi

I had a complete new system installed about 10 years ago, 16 seer variable speed. IT was 10K......I remember when I first opened the panel about 2 years after installation, I was shocked. The wiring looked like it had been installed by a complete amateur. Just a huge rats nest of wires with nothing labeled.....and this was a Trane high end system....

Interesting. Trane and Carrier only allow NATE certified dealers/installers.

Both systems installed were $12K total. They are actually installing the second system as I type...

[Baz]

Sounds expensive for sure, James.

But as you and we all know....your HVAC system is something worth investing in, especially for those of us in the sunbelt!

I'm one of those who have the Goodman unit for the outside condenser unit. Will be 6 years old in September. The air handler is much older. Probably 15 years now. When the Goodman goes, it will probably be time to re-do the whole system and upgrade to the new refrigerant.

I've been trying to extend the life of the Goodman as much as possible. Hosing down the coil, keeping cold galv spray on the filter to stave off rust, and I also have a small 6K BTU window unit I have been running lately to cut down on how much the Goodman has to run.

I also re-roofed with aluminum in silver color earlier this year so that helps with the sun's rays. This winter I plan to re-insulate the attic and then at some point start with window replacement.

Like Bill, am also interested in learning more about project. Thanks!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Tobra

I had a pretty good A/C guy out on Lake Conroe, but I think he is dead.

We had a guy, but he retired.

[Baz]

I remember about 6 years ago I was at a customer's home who just had a Carrier system installed and it was whisper quiet. Very impressive.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by red-beard

My electric bill in the "Winter" is about $100 per month. And in the middle of summer is a bit over $300. I expect to reduce my summer bill by about $80 per month. And overall about $500 per year. Really wanted the Variable speed unit, but I couldn't justify 50% more cost.

That's an impressive reduction. Hopefully, you see it.

I added insulation to our home a couple/few years before we sold it. I think it was about $500 worth of insulation, and we made that back in a year. This was in a home made in '67 that was probably as air tight as a colander. It was two story with a single unit, so I upgraded the thermostat to a smart therm that I was able to schedule the fan to run periodically which helped keep the temp differential between upstairs and down to a reasonable difference, especially during certain times of the year.

[red-beard]

In the "low speed" mode, the RHEEM is extremely quiet. In Regular mode, it is far lower in sound than the old units. The new Condensers are HUGE!

The one in back is the new 3 ton unit. The short one in the foreground is the old 4 ton unit.

[red-beard]

I am doing a lot of energy efficiency improvements.

VS Pool Pump ~$800/year!!!

LED Lighting ~$150/year

New A/C units ~$500/year

That pool pump paid for itself in one year! After the pool, our electric bills were about $3200-$3300/year. The VS pool pump and LED lights have us down under $2400. I'd like to get under $2K/year.

[porsche4life]

Expensive but worth it. I maintain that AC guys are starting to understand how valuable their services are and charge accordingly. When the air goes off and it’s 90 in the house, I will pay handsomely to have that situation fixed!

[red-beard]

I keep the usual components (Capacitors and Contactors) around the house for quick/minor repairs. Stupid things always fails on a weekend with people coming over...

[brp914]

Originally Posted by red-beard

My electric bill in the "Winter" is about $100 per month. And in the middle of summer is a bit over $300. I expect to reduce my summer bill by about $80 per month. And overall about $500 per year. Really wanted the Variable speed unit, but I couldn't justify 50% more cost.

But don't you have solar panels? If so, and your summer bills are still $300 - wow.

[brp914]

Originally Posted by red-beard

In the "low speed" mode, the RHEEM is extremely quiet. In Regular mode, it is far lower in sound than the old units. The new Condensers are HUGE!

The one in back is the new 3 ton unit. The short one in the foreground is the old 4 ton unit.

I had similar, huge Trane 16 seer variables installed. Very quiet, but to no avail - both neighbors units sound like lawn mowers.

[berettafan]

Interested to hear how the two stage works out.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by brp914

But don't you have solar panels? If so, and your summer bills are still $300 - wow.

Nope. My roof is 16 years old and I need to replace it first.