2002 996 Cab with bad engine
 

A friend of my brother’s (casual friend of mine) has this silver 996 that he bought new that has 200,000 miles on it now. He did the clutch recently and did the IMS bearing upgrade. He took it to his local service guy in Walnut Creek, who can only say it’s toast and it’ll take $20K to rebuild. The rest of the car is supposedly pristine. Suggestions (other than V8 conversion)? What’s the car worth with a fresh motor?

Define "fresh" first. If pretty much the same as a factory engine or well known engine builder, then I personally would pay retail for the car if I was in that market. No more.

But the question really is, why is the engine 'toast'? Did the owner drive the car to the shop? Did it stop running all of a sudden? Big Bang?

Not much to go on here so all you're gonna get is speculative comments.

Vertex sells rebuilt 996 engines for $14000.

Bad motor, bad in what way?

Sell it for a few grand to someone who wants to do a V8 swap. Move on.

Serious question, why rule out a LS swap. I rode in one and they're amazing. Owner did the swap himself with a kit he purchased. Kept the original cooling system, trans, everything and the engine was lighter than the original. Since riding in that car I've been looking for a 996 with a toasted engine.

Looking for one? Found one you did.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1598300103.jpg

Re: engine swaps. There is always this:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1037129-build-thread-69-911s-blasphemy-build-lastern-4.html#post10984836

I would get a second opinion. Seems this word toast is thrown around a bit when it just ends up being the Air Oil Seperator or something else. I would post on the Rennlist 996 board. Those guys know water like you guys know air. Impressive bunch.

996 cab w 200k on it is a $6-7k car w nothing wrong w it and nice paint and interior. Get out your calculator and do the math. :)

Just for wild comparisons ....

https://ventura.craigslist.org/cto/d/thousand-oaks-1999-porsche-carrera/7174406225.html

I did a cars.com search on 2002 cabs 500 miles away from Akron.

A silver one with 16k miles, dealer, $30k. Another with 43k miles, private, $27k. Another private seller 67k miles, $22k

Close to and over 100k miles they drop under $20.

Don't know if this link will work.

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?mdId=20567&mkId=20081&page=1&perPage=20&prMx=6000 0&rd=500&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT&sort=relevance &stkTypId=28881&yrId=20142&zc=44685

All I know at this point is the shop in Walnut Creek told him the motor had to be rebuilt.

I spoke with RMG in Sunnyvale (highly regarded from Pelican and I've been using them) and Dan there speculated that a mint 2002 would be worth about $20-25K with an excellent rebuilt motor in it. He offered to buy it for $2,500-3,000 as is. He said for about $200 they could figure out what's wrong with it and he can go from there. Maybe he'll get real lucky. He's not a Chevy V8 kind of guy- I just know that.

What is the math? What's it worth then if it actually needs a complete motor? You make it sound like he ought to call "Kars4Kids" and try to take a 2K write off on taxes.

I think I'd find a way even if I had to buy an old Boxster and move the motor over and resell the Box for a race car project or part it.

Seems like they're in the mid $20Ks with much more reasonable miles, so under $20K without a properly refreshed engine sounds right. Low $20Ks with a nice motor seems about right. Without emotion, it wouldn't make sense to spend more than $20K or so on the motor. Hopefully it can be running nicely for a lot less than $25-30K.

This. You can get a working car for less it costs to repair that one. And even if you repair it you only have clapped out 996 cab.

Get me some pics. I'd give 2500 to 3 for it and send a truck. That thing SCREAMS LS transplant.

We don't know what it will cost to repair this one until a quality second opinion is obtained. If the engine is severely damaged (I suspect that's likely), I agree with you. Supposedly this car has been very well maintained for it's whole life. Aside from the engine, "clapped out" seems unlikely. From what I've seen on this forum, these cars can have a lot of life left in them at 200K. Less valuable, of course.

I told the owner what RMG would pay for the car based on the description I gave them of the car. Hopefully the owner will take the car there for a chance at an affordable and practical repair. I have no idea what he thinks of $2,500-3,000, but he's probably in a state of shock. Tentatively he already has that offer. I'm interested in helping him with some decent advise, not taking pictures to match the offer he already has.

That is why everyone is asking what exactly happened to the engine. If it is D-chunk that broke out from the cylinder, chances are it will need new engine.

That being said, with 200k on the odo there are other things that will need attention soon.

a 996 cab is the bottom of the barrell, there is no fix that will not put him upside down .
He could consider a used motor and install at closer to 10k, but thats a roll of the dice.

ick

We don't know what's wrong with the engine yet, but if it's serious it sound like the car is totaled and there's the salvage value or mechanics special/LS conversion material. The shop that has it hasn't identified what's wrong with the engine, they need to pull it to see, and to me that's suspicious. RMG said they would be able to diagnose it for $200 by running a compression check and opening up the oil filter. There's a small chance that it could be fixed in an affordable way. That's why I suggested the owner take it there. If he has AAA, it won't cost much.

It's in the title of the thread

Who are the people paying $20k for a 996 cab w 200k on the odometer? :confused:

Because I sense a hell of a business opportunity. They absolutely grow on trees for $10k or less w half the miles. Plain 996 coupes are very low on the demand side, cabs are close to worthless.

A 996 cab w a Boxster motor would be even more worthless than a regular one. It's a smaller, less powerful engine than stock and stock is nothing to write home about. But at least you would be out a bunch of time and labor, plus having to buy 2 POS cars.

Life is too short at this point. I'll either buy a Porsche I want or happily not own one. :)

I get it. But tell him from a performance standpoint, the 996 with a LS conversion is a true joy to ride in. I considered selling my 85, pocketing some money and buying a "fun car" 996 to drop a LS in. I was amazed there wasn't much to the swap from talking to the guy that owned the car I took a ride in. He did the swap himself with just the kit. I said "what about transmission,brakes, shocks, and radiator". He said "all original and the balance is a little better because the LS is lighter than the original engine" You could feel the LS torque which was REALLY nice. His other comment was "plus I have a more reliable engine".

But why not buy an actual Chevy? If you like an LS engine, you like Chevys.

Because I can buy a LS engine and a 996 and have WAY less in a car that's fun to drive and handles well than I'd have in a vette.

That is not a very intelligent thing to say Denis

The guys at RMG know their stuff and are great to deal with. They did the PPI on my 356 and it was better than advertised. My 996 C4S at 104k is likely going to need a trans rebuild. I was getting ready and have the parts to renew the struts and mounts but noticed a howl on the highway and metal flakes in the fluid which was pretty dark. It goes in for a professional opinion in a few weeks. At this mileage and given the relative condition of the car I'll fix it. At 200k I don't know that I'd be putting a new motor in unless I was really committed to owning the car long term and the rest was in very good shape and fresh.

Wasn't thinking of value. I was thinking of ways to keep and enjoy the car as a DD. It would be no off worse than a 996 with a salvage title. I'll buy a car with a ST if I know the history. I would do this knowing I'm going to drive into the ground and then call the donation place when it's time. Done that 2wice now. Cost per mile was extremely favorable. No insurance problems other than being able to insure for collision. And then that's case by case.

Living in SoCal 200 HP is all that is needed. To use 400 HP you might get a chance now and then to spurt on the freeway for less than 10 seconds, or drive 1 to 2 hours to an open road. And lastly one can always track a car and have some HP fun if that's your game. I had as much fun as anyone lying one inch off the ground with a whopping 16 HP doing 100 MPH at Big Willow. Had less fun in an early 2.2 MFI 911 with 180 HP and only about 10 seconds a lap faster at the same track.

No, I wouldn't want a Chevy lump in the back. I rode one time in a Jag XJ coupe with a conversion and wished I never had. Having owned Jags that put a real sour taste in my mouth.

The guy here building the Subaru "Blasphemy Build" certainly aptly named his project AFAIC.

That just seems like an awful lot of work and money invested to loose 50 hp. you would probably have to re tune to get it to run correctly , blech.
I've got no problem with an LS conversion, but you better love your finished project, because it is still not inexpensive .
Start adding up all the cost for the conversion, and it is not cheap at all .
I had a really clean black 996 coupe with a d chunked motor .
There was just no way out. No matter how I penned it out all the scenarios , I was spending just about what I could purchase a running example for plus a metric ton of labor .
I sold it as is , and I love a good project . I have to really love something to go upside down on it . A 996 cab would not make that list .

"He did the clutch recently and did the IMS bearing upgrade. He took it to his local service guy in Walnut Creek who can only say it’s toast"



I'm missing a lot of story here.
WHY did you go to the local service guy
Just for maintenance job
or did it have some symptoms of a problem, if so "WHAT" symptoms

And quite frankly, any body who says it's toast, should be able to explain "WHY" and "WHAT" the 20 K rebuild is going to do.
You don't need a tear down to identify a D chunk , piston to valve contact
This is 2020.. bore scopes are cheap these days


Everybody is talking options or ideas on what to do with a dead engine.. but for all we know it's just a busted head gasket..

Car was serviced religiously at Valhalla in Lafayette, CA until they closed, then he switched to Pacific Power Motorsports in Walnut Creek, CA. He went to start it and it clunked, so had it towed in to PPM. The tow truck driver started it up and drove it on the flatbed, then PPM told him it had a broken chain. I wouldn’t think it would even run if a chain was broken. I don’t think they even diagnosed it properly, saying they wouldn’t know until the engine is out. Now the owner is being referred to a mechanic in Reno who will rebuild the engine for 12K and have the shop next door R&R the engine for $4K. Sounds bad to me in every regard. Any reputable shops near Walnut Creek for a quality second opinion?

If we are going to sit here and speculate then the IMS 'upgrade' could have been the problem. Sounds to me when it goes "chunk" that the timing chain jumped.

I would have been more than furious with the TT driver. Unless he was told that he could start and drive the car knowing it was being towed because of an engine issue, I would waste not a minute to sue the pants off that guy.

And if that's the story and the new mechanic heard it too, I'm with him all the way. The motor is now toast thanks to the idiot that re-started it. You know, unless you're barreling down the road when disaster strikes, some parts can be saved. No, I'm not Jake Raby, but I'm not motormeister either.

I'd buy a project like that for the right money. And, yes, I'd be throwing my labor out the window.

Our local independent "expert" was pointing me to putting in a used engine when my '88 showed 4% leakage in one cylinder. :rolleyes:

The owner’s friend is bringing a trailer to take it to Reno, where the mechanic will inspect it before the engine comes out.

I agree with WTF on the tow truck driver starting it!

did MotorMeister by any chance restart under new name?

Sounds like collapsed chain tensioner made it skip a teeth or two. Unlikely "broken chain", otherwise tow driver idjit would not be able to start it ...

How is it possible to spend $4k to R&R an engine?

I wouldn't even consider that.