Will the Real twin Cam Come forward ?

[afterburn 549]

I do believe it has a reputation based and clouded by the fact most these bikes are hardly ever ridden.
What is my point?
I was dwn at the local independent shop the other day getting a part for the HSR 40.
*A Twin Cam was on the operating table with its guts from inside the timing cover all splayed out all over the place.
I know the shop owner pretty well and as we were talking he said almost every one of the Twinks needs a heart transplant by 30K
Cams , pumps, bearings ETC!
Yet if I ask most people about the TC reputation it comes back pretty good!
So I got to thinking after my trip out west last week.
My Buddy had me take a ride on his Twin Cam soft tail.
I forget what year it was (OLD) but it had only 7K miles on it!
My brain fired off a thought!
Most all these bikes have been bought by the Bucket Kicker folks!
No miles on them, Trailered everywhere.
If you ever ride to Sturgis it is like a Convoy, a parade on the way there.
The last 500 miles is spent passing towed bikes! Miles of them being towed to Meca.
This Generation that bought a Harley just to say they own one has no clue what is in the mail once that odometer flips a few more zeros.
In truth, they will not ever get that far.
I am thinking HD dodged a pretty big bullet!
The Real Twin cam has yet to be discovered!
Perhaps it never will be as these will all soon be sold and taken care of buy a different crowd.
The true deficit will never make a big splash as it should have.
Hd walked away with the biggest sales event in their history producing the worst engine ever.

* he showed me the cams and they were literally almost ground off on the backside where it fits in the bearing.

[911boost]

I never had a single issue with the TC in my ‘06 Electra Glide. Had just under
30k on it when I sold it last year to a buddy and got a new Road Glide. It has 7k flawless miles on it so far.

Don’t get me started on towing, the most ironic is when I see a bagger being towed, why buy a touring bike if you aren’t going to “tour”?

[Jeff Higgins]

Sheer and utter bullschitt. My 2000 Road King died with 116,000 absolutely trouble free miles on it when it got run over by the F250. My riding buddy has over 100,000 similar trouble free miles on his 2003 Heritage Softail. I've met several riders out on the road with over 200,000 miles on their early Twinkies who have done nothing more than change fluids, tires, and brake pads.

Anything can be abused or neglected by a fool. Unfortunately, modern H-D's seem to attract more than their fair share. Maybe because it has become so "accessible" through their vastly increased reliability and relative lack of maintenance requirements. When I started this game, one really had to know one's machine to even think about riding out of view of one's house. When that changed, a whole different kind of rider found they could do it with no mechanical peril whatsoever. When the constant need for daily attention went away, it opened the door for those who pay no attention. Those of us who still understand that these are machines in need of at least some love and attention will get hundreds of thousands of miles out of them.

[asphaltgambler]

My experience is that a bike with 30K on the clock is like a car with 100K. Not that they can't or won't go further trouble-free miles but the expectation is different. I happen to think in stock form the twin cam is a very good power plant. Certainly a step forward over the Evo design.

Some of the best current aftermarket hot street / racing engines are based on the TC platform. I also know that if you plan on running the h3ll out of it, add cams and RPM's there are a few deviations from stock cam chain / oiler setup that need addressed.

[afterburn 549]

I dont think it is total BS jeff-
And I know you would stand right up and promote HD.
But do try to be objective here-
I have walked into this shop and seen a lot with the right side torn open.
He said he turns away business as it is more than can handle.
I just never asked too much about them as I don't own a Twink.
On top of that, I know many have a TIR crank problem causing this havoc I am told.
I saw a twink last Summer that actualy busted the timing cover bolts because the crank was wobbling so bad!
Next, we know Vendors exist advertising a cure, like welded cranks and etc.
Also, there is another group selling gears rather than chains (S&S)
Fueling sells some remedy also.
There is a large number of vendors selling parts for an imaginary problem?
I don't think so.
So whilst you may have had no problems many have.

[Jeff Higgins]

I base my assessment on my first hand experience, and the experiences of others whom I have observed first hand. Granted, kind of a small sample, but in it I have seen 100% reliability.

I also remember back in the early Twinkie days, when I was dumb enough to ride with the local HOG chapter. We had literally hundreds of members on the books, and probably a few dozen who actually showed up. Most didn't ride much, but many rode even more than I did. Most had the then new Twinkies, and were only HOG members who had received membership when they bought them. In that much larger group, I never heard of a single mechanical failure, outside of some of the infamous rear cam bearing issues, which H-D repaired under warranty.

And yes, indeed, there are plenty of manufacturers who absolutely make bank by selling products that "fix" non-existent problems. Especially in this day of the internet, where we see each and every "problem" magnified by internet forum types who ride their keyboards more than they ride their bikes.

The timing chest problems seem to only occur when running hotter cams. With the hotter cams, riders then rev the motor higher as well, which coupled with the increase in lift and heavier valve springs, put more stress on the cam drive. The cranks suffer as well when subjected to higher than stock revs. And somehow this seems to be a "quality issue" with H-D...

As with any hot rod motor, if everything is not done right, the weak links will soon be exposed. There is no shortage of riders who will put hot cams in it, maybe some Screaming Eagle heads, re-chip it to raise the rev limit and, if they are really industrious, put a big bore kit in it. All with stock cam drives and stock cranks. Then they proceed to hammer the bejesus out of them and wonder why they have problems. POS Twinkies...

[varmint]

04-06

Think that was about when Harley was trying plastic cam chain tensioners.


Bought a road king last year for seven grand because my wife wanted something we could ride together and I thought they couldn’t possibly get any cheaper.

But I’m seeing them for around six now.

[afterburn 549]

I don't think it is because they are a twink at all, the market has been flooded.
The Bucket Kickers can't even trailer theirs anymore. (slight exaggeration but that is where it is going)
Sales are dwn as there is no one to sell to-but that is another story.
I have seen baggers going for as low 4K!
Back to tmy twink biotch - If I remember correctly the fact manual allows 0.009 crank TIR now.!!
Gears would not work very well with all that wobble going on.
That is way out of the allowable 003.5 (1.5 ) each direction they used to dictate as in the specs.
So they allow loser crank standards.
I have no idea which years are worse than others.
I know they stopped using the Timken on the crank main bng, which was a bean counters ploy to save two cents.
That was for sure a mistake.

All in all the Twink was the largest continuous run HD has ever done.
Now they sit with no one to ride them, and this gets worse every day as all the owners are getting older.
That's my opinion and you all are allowed to disagree.

[drcoastline]

I thought this thread was about a fake/fraudulent Porsche engine. Not being a motorcycle guy I didn't know what a "twinkie/twink" was? So I googled twink motorcycle.

I didn't like what the search returned. I am not going to delve into this any further. I will leave now.

[911boost]

Did you search result show a certain Fed Ex pilot?

Now back on topic...

[Jeff Higgins]

TIR on 2007 and earlier Twinkie cranks is .002", from 2008 on it is .004". This is when still in the V-blocks used for trueing. In the crankcase the TIRs double, but now the crank is supported by roller bearings, which do move a bit. The TIR tightens up once again once the cam plate is in place, as it serves to support that end of the crank.

Where did you get your information on the bearing supplier change? And what makes Timken so special? I spec'd out a lot of roller and ball bearings over the course of my career. Timken ain't the only game in town, and not necessarily the best, either.

[afterburn 549]

I think 2002 was last year for the Timken -it, of course, is tapered.
That bearing and style was used for years with no crank problems
When they cut corners on the timken the specs became loser.
As an engineer of sorts you do recognize all that I am sure.


https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/se-timken-bearing-sleeve

https://www.bearingsinc.info/timken-bearings-for-harley-davidson.html

https://www.hdtimeline.com/threads/cam-bearing-failure.35873/

[afterburn 549]

2 articles above post and the Four below
We could spend all day posting stuff that has plagued the twinks



https://www.baggersmag.com/twin-cam-engine-chain-driven-cams-and-twisting-crank#page-6

https://www.lawabidingbiker.com/73/

http://bsgautomobile.com/harley-davidson-twin-cam-crankshafts/

http://www.hotshotmotorworks.com/didja_know.htm

[Jeff Higgins]

Yes, you can indeed spend all day posting that kind of stuff. Pick a product - any product - and you will have no trouble finding countless internet "experts" eager to disparage it.

[afterburn 549]

To be objective and I try to be-
You just do not find an Evo or shovel with out of phase cranks.
This anomaly happens a lot with the Twink.
I do not think page upon page of internet information about the problems of the Twink can be all wrong.
One has to sift for the truth.

[Jeff Higgins]

Again, all of the problems you attribute to the Twinkie only begin to manifest themselves in high performance applications. In its stock configuration, it has proven to be far and a way the most reliable, long lived H-D Big Twin to date. By a considerable margin. Comparing Shovel or Evo reliability and longevity to that of the Twin Cam is laughable. I've owned all of them at one time or another. Nothing preceding the Twin Cam even came close.

You will notice that the "page upon page or internet information" is almost entirely people repeating something they heard, with no first hand experience. Seems way too many denizens of the internet are eager to demonstrate what they "know" - it's the nature of the beast. Before you know it, these things become "common knowledge", and take on a life of their own, and people with no knowledge or experience become even more eager to repeat it, so they can present themselves as "experts".

I'll take my real world, first hand experience and that of my riding partners over that kind of nonsense any time. My first Twin Cam was the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned, on two wheels or four, and my second one is shaping up the same way.

[afterburn 549]

Well,- HD itself, in fact, does sell those silly "stage Kits" for them!

[Jeff Higgins]

Yes, they do market those infernal "stage" kits, and make bank doing so. They make their bikes what they should have been to begin with. No other company leaves enough on the table that they can pull this kind of bull schitt. Thank God none of those "stage" kits add any real performance, or they would really be in trouble. More marketing b.s. for gullible Twinkie (and Milwaukee Eight) riders - on that, I think we can whole-heartedly agree.

[afterburn 549]

Agreed.
Stage kits are for those that are clueless.
They would not know 45 deg seat from a 4.5 stroke.
Just sell it to me please and promise I will go fast...
Argh argh argh

[afterburn 549]

Looking at different years of twinks -not to buy, just to school myself.
Some come with cam bearings?
Some dont.?
Some come with piston pin bushing, some don't.
No bearings or bushings is for sure a bean counters idea and dream of saving a penny here and there.

Hopefully, they dont do that crap to the already infamous M8