Adams Probe 16 Restoration Project...

[MBAtarga]

Looks like the suggested bridge rectifier in terms of shape and size. Strange thing - those are typically used in power supplies to convert AC input to DC output voltage when followed by a capacitor(s) on the output. I'm not sure where AC would come into play on your vehicle in order to be used as the input supply.

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Wayne, that sure looks like a simple one weekend project.

I hate doing electrical work. I can't imagine that mess with no manual of current flow charts. It is sort of watching an archeological dig and trying to figure out what went where.

I guess you will have a full restoration manual with your notes and this thread.

Well, okay. So, yes, this is a pain in the ass. But, the one thing I have going for me on this car is that it was built in 1969, with 1969 technology, which, let's face it, is fairly primitive and straightforward. I did a bunch of electrical diagnosis on my 959 when we were troubleshooting an electrical warning buss problem a few years ago. That was a huge pain. I have electrical diagrams for that car, but there are 13 different computers on the car, all pre-386 technology, and the electrical diagrams show 26 wires entering a computer and nothing else. So, compared to that nightmare, this is easy. A pain in the ass, and space is really tight in this thing (although not as bad as the tank), but still relatively straightforward.

I should just restore a VW Bug or a Ford Mustang, or something easy and straightforward one of these days instead of mucking around with Probe 16s, a Daimler Ferret tank, the Fire truck (only 13 made - I still don't have a manual on how the pump works), or the solar car. Heck, working on all of this stuff with no documentation makes working on the Ferrari 360 seem really easy! Just open the manual on the computer, and say "oh, so that's how you get that transmission heat exchanger out".

Quote of the day: "I wish I had one of my own books for each of these cars!"

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

Looks like the suggested bridge rectifier in terms of shape and size. Strange thing - those are typically used in power supplies to convert AC input to DC output voltage when followed by a capacitor(s) on the output. I'm not sure where AC would come into play on your vehicle in order to be used as the input supply.

Thanks everyone. I'll take a closer look at the wiring tonight and see if I can figure out why they would use one of these in there. I think I'll clean it up and reuse it if it's fine, but I'll also buy a spare (they appear to be like $3) just in case.

-Wayne

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

I have to replace a section of the wire harness. It looks like it got wet or sat near a fuel tank that was leaking fumes, or something. The wire is all brittle, black, and the insulation cracks when you bend it. Only in this area though, so I'm going to order some proper matching wire (not easy to find), and then patch in the new harness (26 connectors - that will be fun).


Here's the typical wire, I wanted to make it work, but it's just obvious that it's a bad idea:



The insulation on this stuff just crackles and breaks if you try to bend it even slightly:





I came across this component, which I've seen on and off throughout the years. I thought this was a terminal block, but there appears to be resistance across the terminals, so I'm not 100% sure. I think I've seen them before on cars I was parting out - it's not completely foreign to me, but I never took a very close look or investigated. I don't have an electrical diagram for this car, so it's anyone's guess where each wire goes exactly, but I think it's for the electric motor to raise the headlamps. I'm still confused as to what this thing is, I have not seen one of these before:








-Wayne

Ballast resistor or resistor pack for a blower would be my guesses. What are the wires connected to?

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Ballast resistor or resistor pack for a blower would be my guesses. What are the wires connected to?

Agreed. Ballast resistor.

Honestly, I'd throw a Delco alternator in that thing with a Painless Wiring kit.

[elliotgofast]

It looks like the headlight motor runs a cable drive. I've seen this on early 50s Lincolns and American cars used on convertible tops and power seat mechanisms. The relays and controls used to drive these types of motors were quite unique. The problem is that these motors are typically two wire and requires a complete reversal of polarity to make them operate in the opposite direction. One of the old cars that I restored, I replaced the old 50s 6v relays with 4 modern relays using the NO and NC terminals on the relay to complete the reverse polarity task. The other thing that is typically missing from those old controls are how to stop the motor from running when it gets to the end of the travel. In modern cars, when the power window motor gets to the bottom, it opens a thermal fuse to stop. In these older motors and controls, when the motor stalls at the end of the travel, the current goes up which can be used to open a self reseting circuit breaker to stop it. Once you get the system working, you can test with and without the block or individual terminals connected to reverse engineer the design.

I would connect with a good electrical supply house like Waytek, Terminal Supply Inc, American Autowire and use as many modern connectors, fuse panels, relays, and terminals as possible to make a robust wiring system. Working with old cars, you need to touch or inspect every inch of every wire because a rodent, a chafe, degraded tape, etc might be the path to a car fire. With a wood and fiberglass car, that's a lot of materials that like to burn, melt, and combust. Even replace every fuse because old fuses can sometimes not blow when asked. I'm also a big proponent of modernizing the electrical systems. There are a lot of solutions out there with wiring coverings, loom, tape materials, and fabricated covers to nearly hide the entire wiring system and the modernization. The time spent going through everything in detail pays off so much at the back end with reliability and piece of mind. It doesn't look like there is much originality to save there except wire lengths and routing.

Otherwise this is a really neat project and a great time capsule. I hope to follow along. Thanks for sharing online.

[Wayne 962]

Thanks elliotgofast, some good suggestions there. The headlamp motor works okay for now, and you're right, the motor has a total of four wires going to it, which I haven't seen before. I do not know what happens when it reaches its end of travel - it does work okay, maybe this diode bridge has something to do with limiting the current spikes. Here's a photo of the motor:




I've got enough issues to resolve with this car, I'm not going to start "fixing" stuff that isn't necessarily broken at this time. I.E. the stuff that is working, I'm going to literally check it off the list / spreadsheet and move on.

I did clean up the diode bridge, but it didn't reveal anything additional, except "Made in Haiti", which is odd:





I ordered all the new wire for the harness, it should be here within a week. In the meantime, it's on to working on the brakes (which need everything too)...

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Random Probe 16 photo I found cool. It really puts it into perspective how ground-breaking and cool this design was, when compared to nearly everything else on the road at the time:



-Wayne

[rwest]

Hi Wayne,

Very cool and fun project. What was the car designed to be? Was it supposed to be a performance or sports car or were they just going for a cool looking car?

Rutager

[1990C4S]

Well now that it's clean I can see 'AC' on one corner, '-' on another. You will find '+' opposite the '-', and another 'AC' opposite the 'AC' on the picture.

This is a bridge rectifier, I am going to guess the wires go back to a rudimentary alternator.

[1990C4S]

Looks like this, to me.

[javadog]

I think you're onto something there. So, the alternator on this thing doesn't have a built-in rectifier?

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by javadog

I think you're onto something there. So, the alternator on this thing doesn't have a built-in rectifier?

Based on what I've seen from the car so far, I am guessing not. I can't think of another reason for a rectifier.

[Wayne 962]

Well, the alternator does have a voltage regulator and such. I think this has something to do with the headlamp motor having four wires to it - presumably for the field coil winding and the armature winding. It's been about 30 years since I've studied this stuff, so I don't quite remember. A three minute Google search didn't reveal anything useful either. I have a lot of other things to worry about, so I will just plug it back in as-is (since it works), and leave it alone. Unless someone else here knows and wishes to explain...

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Okay, so having sold Pelican about three years ago, I've been mucking around with real estate and restoring other cars (working on the 1969 M-505 Adams Brothers Probe 16). But I came across something the other day, that I haven't seen before.

So, on my 1972 911E, I have the standard period-correct Blaupunkt Frankfurt radio installed, and about 15 years ago, I bought a plug adapter that allows me to plug the radio into a standard 3.5 headphone jack like the ones that used to be on the old iPods. That worked great for many years, the sound automatically plays through the old Blaupunkt radio into the standard speakers, and maintains 100% the correct vintage radio.

Fast forward to 2020, and I have the Probe 16 we're restoring which basically has the same radio. Check out this thread here for more info:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1074841-adams-m-505-probe-16-restoration-project.html

Here's the radio:





So, this radio has a plug on the back (very forward thinking for Blaupunkt) that has a cross-over switch (ability to automatically turn off the radio and use an external source), and power as well. Here's the plug on the back:



So, this is what I bought:

Bluetooth® 5.0 Certified For Blaupunkt Frankfurt Stereo Bluetooth Music Streaming with 7/8 Pin

Keep your Blaupunkt radio and add this amazing enhanced technology device to get Handsfree and Music streaming.

This device supports high quality audio streaming with the use of an Integrated Digital Signal Processor Sony LDAC (DSP) decodes AAC &

SBC codec and executes advanced audio.

Bluetooth® 5.0 means Longer range and faster data transfer resulting high quality audio.

No more wires! Just plug it in and forget about it. Auto pairing will occur on the last device paired when the ignition is turned on.

As long as the device is paired, it will stream the music and when it is unpaired or streaming stops and the radio will resume its normal operation.

Just remove the bypass cover from the back of the radio, Plug the interface in, pair your device and it is done!

If you are not 100% satisfied with this device performance simply return it for a full refund

Please note: The radios are not part of this listing

Any question please contact us

Creative Car Audio Shop

Pickup and demo available with prior appointment from our store in Brea CA 92821

Thank you for looking.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blaupunkt-Frankfurt-Stereo-Bluetooth-5-0-Music-Streaming-with-7-8-Pin/293807557676?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Plugged it in, and it works perfectly. Red Hot Chilli Peppers streaming from my iPhone to my 1970 Blaupunkt Frankfurt radio in the 1969 Probe 16! The sound is of course, from 1970, but actually, these old radios are not that bad!

I'm going to recommend that Pelican carry this product, it's pretty good. Literally a five-minute installation!

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Check this out, I've never seen one of these before on a normally aspirated car - Vacuum gauge. The Smith's gauge guy who does repair said these are fairly uncommon / rare. There is a hose connected to the back of the gauge that runs all the way to the intake manifold in the engine. The hose was clamped off with some small clamp - I'm not sure why. I assumed it was because the gauge was broken, or the hose had a break and was leaking. So, I decided to test it...


Here's the cool gauge:



Here's where it connects to intake manifold:



Here's how you test it - suck on it, look at the gauge, stick your tongue on the end and hold it for a minute or so to see if the gauge goes down (signalling a leak in the system). No leaks! I'm not sure why this was clamped off (maybe I will discover the reason in the future).


-Wayne

[Scott Douglas]

Dad's '64 Travelall had a really cool looking AirGuide vacuum gauge and tach on the steering column. They are fun to watch when you're hypermiling.

Looked just like the one linked below.

[Scott Douglas]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/LaAwLHe5q__QNrIj4J17-rjwWBrWseiVxlenFcjeYqA4Db2Y4RE1YmA3bD5qanI1wrtGswM p76jbRaYRe5FLzbvALbEFvcrTh4eAEPioz_mrPJG0AAGM4s06

[maxnine11]

Those vacuum gauges are still available if yours is NFG.

https://www.caigauge.com/blog/new-smiths-vacuum-gauge-launched-by-cai

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/smiths-classic-electrical-vacuum-gauge-smivg1302-03cb/

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/LaAwLHe5q__QNrIj4J17-rjwWBrWseiVxlenFcjeYqA4Db2Y4RE1YmA3bD5qanI1wrtGswM p76jbRaYRe5FLzbvALbEFvcrTh4eAEPioz_mrPJG0AAGM4s06

That link doesn't work?

-Wayne