Cheating POS Houston Astros:

[speeder]

They should be banned from baseball for 10 years or something. The whole team was in on it and not one player said, "this is wrong?"

[Sooner or later]

Cheating has been a part of baseball since it started. BoSox being investigated now for sign stealing and others are probably also on the hook. Corked bats. Spit balls. People in the grandstands with binoculars signaling in signs to the batter.

Houston just took it a step further and was ahead of the curve.

[stevej37]

Originally Posted by speeder

They should be banned from baseball for 10 years or something. The whole team was in on it and not one player said, "this is wrong?"

I heard a little about this...Was Verlander involved?

[speeder]

The whole team was involved. I’m well aware of the history of cheating in baseball but this is not a little pine tar, it’s a wholesale destruction of the opposing team.

[Seahawk]

Vacate their WS titles at a minimum.

I played a lot of baseball and pitched as well. If I tip off my pitches, that's on me, and is not stealing by the other team.

This was systemic, outside the field of play and known by EVERY Astro.

As a hitter, knowingly sitting on a curve or slider is an advantage few in sports ever get.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has never played baseball...and I am not a Dodger fan although a spent a lot of time at the Ravine.

[Jeff Higgins]

I don't follow "stick and ball" sports, so I'm absolutely clueless as to what y'all are talking about. What did they do? Was it "worse" than "Deflategate"?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I don't follow "stick and ball" sports, so I'm absolutely clueless as to what y'all are talking about. What did they do? Was it "worse" than "Deflategate"?

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/houston-astros-cheating-scandal-10-things-we-learned-from-mlbs-nine-page-investigative-report/

Distilled: The Astro hitters often knew what the opposing pitcher was going to throw...like an Elk knowing when you were going to pull the trigger five seconds before you actually pulled, then running away.

[GG Allin]

Is it really cheating if your signs are crackable?

[speeder]

Yep. My BIL played college baseball for 4 years and even before this happened, he taught his kids that, "winners never cheat and cheaters never win..."

It's worked out good wrt the character of the kids. And he's right...a shortcut is the quickest way to the back of the line. I just can't imagine how the Astros felt popping the champaign corks and hugging each other after winning the WS from the Dodgers in 7 games and knowing that they cheated so horribly. They also destroyed the career of at least one pitcher, who looked like a fool in front of the whole sports world when the Astros hitters burned him to the ground.

MFers.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by GG Allin

Is it really cheating if your signs are crackable?

By electronic means, outside the field of play?

Yes.

That is why the league banned the practice. See the link I posted.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by GG Allin

Is it really cheating if your signs are crackable?

Yes. When you use binoculars and modern technology to transmit the signals to the batters in real time, it's 100% cheating. Figuring out what the signals mean, (cracking them), is child's play. This was like having a person w a telescope reading your opponent's cards in a poker tournament.

100% cheating.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/houston-astros-cheating-scandal-10-things-we-learned-from-mlbs-nine-page-investigative-report/

Distilled: The Astro hitters often knew what the opposing pitcher was going to throw...like an Elk knowing when you were going to pull the trigger five seconds before you actually pulled, then running away.

Thanks. It does sound like there was some disagreement even among the players involved as to whether or not this was even effective. Still, in a sport that is so much a part of "Americana", and so ubiquitous as far as teaching kids the value of fair play, this is pretty despicable. In spite of Charles Barkley's infamous "I am not a role model" nonsense, these guys are, in fact, very much role models for millions of kids.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Thanks. It does sound like there was some disagreement even among the players involved as to whether or not this was even effective. Still, in a sport that is so much a part of "Americana", and so ubiquitous as far as teaching kids the value of fair play, this is pretty despicable.

There is, because it is baseball, a lot of data out there: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/which-players-might-have-benefited-from-the-astros-sign-stealing/

And, if the results were not compelling, why did they continue to do it?

Baseball was my first love. I played in college until I was hurt. I am frankly somewhat a disinterested fan unless the Giants are in the mix...I haven't watched a regular season game in 20 years.

That said, what the Astros did matters.

[speeder]

It was pretty demonstrable that it was effective in the 2017 WS games played in Houston. No one could figure out how their batters were destroying our best pitchers when the exact opposite was happening in the Dodgers Stadium games.

If you are a MLB player and I tell you which pitches are coming in advance, it's no longer baseball. It's fking batting practice.

[RWebb]

did Bellibuttchek visit and provide them with info on how to do SIGINT??

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

There is, because it is baseball, a lot of data out there: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/which-players-might-have-benefited-from-the-astros-sign-stealing/

And, if the results were not compelling, why did they continue to do it?

Baseball was my first love. I played in college until I was hurt. I am frankly somewhat a disinterested fan unless the Giants are in the mix...I haven't watched a regular season game in 20 years.

That said, what the Astros did matters.

Yes, absolutely, what they did matters. A lot.

I have never liked baseball. Probably more due to my early exposure - our games were on crappy dirt fields, where any hot grounder was going to hit a rock at the last second and either hit you in the teeth or in the nuts. I quit long before I was old enough to play in a league that played on "nice" fields. Soccer was my game - played that through college, then in adult leagues until I was 40.

Baseball and football both really rubbed me the wrong way from a different perspective. Both have "favored" positions that, at least as kids, the coaches or the coaches' buddies kids get to play. Both favor physical size as well. Soccer isn't like that, at least not as much. Interestingly, with both big pro sports in America suffering cheating scandals, it strikes me there are no similar ways to cheat in soccer.

Originally Posted by speeder

It was pretty demonstrable that it was effective in the 2017 WS games played in Houston. No one could figure out how their batters were destroying our best pitchers when the exact opposite was happening in the Dodgers Stadium games.

If you are a MLB player and I tell you which pitches are coming in advance, it's no longer baseball. It's fking batting practice.

Yes, I can see that at that skill level, if you know what's coming it makes your job far easier.

What about the pure fastball pitchers? The only Mariners pitcher I can even name is Randy Johnson, who was known for his. I got the impression that the vast majority of his pitches were simple fastballs, nothing fancy. So damn fast that most hitters simply couldn't deal with him, even knowing full well that was what was coming. So, isn't this more of an advantage over the guys who might not have the speed, so they mix it up more?

[Scott Douglas]

C'mon guys...it's only a game played by a buncha millionaires. Not like they're dealing with life 'n death issues out on the field.



(My baseball history is having a son who was drafted, as a pitcher, out of high school by the then World Champion Angel's, in the 23rd round. He played ball at SDSU for 3 yrs before his Mech Eng profs said he had to be in class more than on the field. Tony Gwynn was his coach.)

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I have never liked baseball. Probably more due to my early exposure [snip] Soccer was my game - played that through college, then in adult leagues until I was 40.

I was never exposed to Soccer, you'd think so growing up in SoCal? In retrospect, I would not have flourished in that sport.

I played (mostly pitched) in over 40 and 50 baseball until my hip reminded me all good things must come to an end. Those leagues were a hoot, at least in this area.

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

C'mon guys...it's only a game played by a buncha millionaires. Not like they're dealing with life 'n death issues out on the field.

Of course not. But how about your son's Profs decided to let others cheat while he had to play by the rules?

It is not the game or the millionaires: it is the principle of allowing known cheaters to reap the benefits of their malfeasance, regardless of the activity.

[Scott Douglas]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

It is not the game or the millionaires: it is the principle of allowing known cheaters to reap the benefits of their malfeasance, regardless of the activity.

I'm joking.
Of course it (the cheating) has ruined the game for many of us, even the casual viewers such as myself. They (the Astro's) didn't do MLB any favors with their actions. I used to enjoy watching them play. It will be hard to do that now.

[Pazuzu]

I guess they musta brought that entire complex Cheat Machine assembly with them all over North America...since they have a demonstratively better season AWAY than at home that year. Every single batting stat was higher AWAY than HOME.

2 out of 3 games away won? Your Dodgers had the same stats. Oh, wait, no they didn't, they were inverted...2 out of 3 games at home.