Thinking of buying a plane...

[NeedSpace]

In 2000 I got my pilots license. But since then, I have flown very little. Im 100 hours VFP pilot. Between getting married and having kids, I just didn't have the time to fly much. Then about 6 years ago my wife died and my mom made me promise I would stop flying for a while (as leaving my kid with no parents wouldn't be cool).

Now the little bugger is just about 13, and I am constantly thinking of buying an airplane. Nothing much, thinking of buying a 2 seater Vans. And he wants his pilot license as well. FYI, I can afford it so it isn't about money for the purchase or the maintenance. (I mean let's be clear, I am not buying a citation...) Also thinking I would get my IFR and also perhaps my aerobatic training as well.



So my questions to my favorite people, should I? For those who have owned what are the pros and cons. I know it isn't a great investment, but Im sure it would depreciate less than a new porsche and I think it would a boat load more fun. Whaddya think?

I figure about $100k for the plane and probably about $10k max a year.

[pwd72s]

My buddy since childhood had one until he couldn't fly for medical reasons. Loved the plane. But then, he has a LOT more hours in the air than you. When we were both in grade school, he said he wanted to be a jet pilot. Damned if he didn't do it. Flew F-111 for Uncle in the 70's, "drove bus" for American until he aged out, then built his RAV7.

Sold it a couple of years ago...I imagine how sad it must have made him. Sorry, he never mentioned upkeep cost...and hanger rentals vary according to area...

(edit) I never flew with him. I was confident in his skill but also was pretty sure he'd have loved making me barf.

A pic of him during happier times:

[KNS]

Van's are very nice planes but unless you're building it yourself there's always going to be a mystery about it. If you've got a 100K budget you can a get very nice used certified aircraft. I'd think about a 182 or something similar.

Nothing wrong with your plan and the IFR ticket would be a very smart move.

[MRM]

Why don’t you join a good flying club first? Flying is a Lifestyle commitment and owning an airplane is even more so. With your budget a flying club that gave you access to planes across the spectrum on demand would be realistic. And you would get a built in community that would support you and your son as you both learned more and grew in your hobby.

[Hard-Deck]

Buying a plane would be an awesome thing. I have flown a Rans a few times, even once for an airshow flyover. Fun little plane. I have STRONG advice/opinion that aerobatics training should be next and foremost before IFR, before purchase decision. My next plane purchase will be a Big-wheel Kitfox. I flew F/A-18s and a Kitfox is way more fun.

[dmcummins]

I loved owning my plane, I sold it because the wife was scared after a mechanical problem we had. I had a Beech Debonair, but if I was buying again I would seriously look at the vans. When I bought 4 seats were a requirement, and we did fill them from time to time.

I owned my plane from 2012 to 2020. I sold it for what I paid including my upgrades, and I put 700 hours on it. It still cost me $175 a hour to fly. Maintenance is probably higher on my certified plane and it burned 12 gal a hour. I was also lucky I never had any big maintenance surprises, no engine overhauls or big AD.

[NeedSpace]

Originally Posted by Snapper33

Buying a plane would be an awesome thing. I have flown a Rans a few times, even once for an airshow flyover. Fun little plane. I have STRONG advice/opinion that aerobatics training should be next and foremost before IFR, before purchase decision. My next plane purchase will be a Big-wheel Kitfox. I flew F/A-18s and a Kitfox is way more fun.

interesting that you say Aerobatics first? Is that simply because it'll make me a better pilot? THat was my primary reason for doing it. I know a place not too far (well given my area outside of manhattan) that I am pretty sure has a program in upstate NY

[NeedSpace]

Originally Posted by MRM

Why don’t you join a good flying club first? Flying is a Lifestyle commitment and owning an airplane is even more so. With your budget a flying club that gave you access to planes across the spectrum on demand would be realistic. And you would get a built in community that would support you and your son as you both learned more and grew in your hobby.

Hmm you know that might be a good idea without jumping in too deep. I should look into that. Are there typically time requirements to joining one? Anything I ahould look for in joining one?

I know owning my own plane is an eventual goal but perhaps this is a step toward it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by NeedSpace

Hmm you know that might be a good idea without jumping in too deep. I should look into that. Are there typically time requirements to joining one? Anything I ahould look for in joining one?

I know owning my own plane is an eventual goal but perhaps this is a step toward it.

I think it’s a very good suggestion. It would allow you the opportunity to ease into it and see if you have sufficient time to actually fly. Which is also a big part of being safe, you have to fly often to stay sharp. I’m sure your club will also have a variety of CFIs available that you could utilize for additional training.

I grew up flying in my grandfather’s Bonanza, it’s my fondest childhood memory. I loved going out for a Saturday afternoon flight and then hanging out in the hanger over coffee with the other local pilots. So the element of sharing it with your son really resonates with me. If he’s interested in becoming a pilot then that’s even better. I work in aerospace because of my grandfather and flying as a kid, it’s quite a gift.

You should also double check your math, if you hanger the plane I suspect the carrying costs will exceed $10k. When my grandfather died I had the opportunity to inherit his plane, it would have cost me between $12-14k per year just to annual and hanger it. That’s nothing for repairs, or accruing for the TBO that was coming soon on his plane. At the time it was all money that I didn’t have and didn’t account for actually flying to plane or flight training. It was also a V35 Bonanza with a throw over yoke, not exactly the best basic flight training aircraft. It went to my uncle and was ultimately totaled by hail because he was to cheap to put it in a hanger.

[rwrink]

Approved.

It will cost more than you think.

Get a very good checkout from a CFI who is a Vans specialist.

If you don't have any tail time, go get a couple of hours on a Champ or cub and then get a full Pitts check out. You will get to do some good acro and if you can land a Pitts, you can land a RV.

Get involved in the RV community, get your IFR, do aerobatics, learn formation, take the plane camping, make memories. The more you do, the more you will enjoy.

Flying is safe, sitting at home is dangerous.

Rob

[billybek]

I felt like the karate kid going out to visit my dad's 172. Wax on, wax off...

That little airplane must have weighed 100 lbs less after reducing the paint thickness for 25 years.

Good luck with your search.

[MRM]

I'd really encourage you to look into flying clubs. They would be perfect for you, especially as you get back into flying and you would like access to different airplanes as your experience and inclination grows, without the day to day personal commitment of time necessary to just keep the airplane airworthy, whether you fly it or not.

There are so many clubs available that you can pick and chose one that fits your needs precisely. Most have an initial buy in and relatively modest monthly dues. They will have a variety of planes from one or two to a small fleet. You get access to the club's planes at a set price per hour which covers the club's actual cost of that plane. You can put time in at the club or walk away at the end of the flight, whichever is your inclination. If you don't use the club for a while you're into it for nothing more than the monthly dues.

I think you'd like that a lot better than getting into one plane now and running the risk of outgrowing it in a couple of years when you want to fly your son and some friends someplace warm for a spring break vacation.

Check out the AOPA Flying Club Finder. https://www.aopa.org/CAPComm/flyingclubs/flyingclubfinder/results?term=MN

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by KNS

Van's are very nice planes but unless you're building it yourself there's always going to be a mystery about it. If you've got a 100K budget you can a get very nice used certified aircraft. I'd think about a 182 or something similar.

Nothing wrong with your plan and the IFR ticket would be a very smart move.

A 182 for 100K is going to be a old beat up flight trainer wit a zillion landing and high airframe time. 172 is the same thing, but the price is closer, but right now they are in high demand and hard to find a good one.

We own a 2004 182T and I get constant mailers (5 of them one day) from buyers wanting to buy our 182. We rent an hangar at a privately owned airport. Hangars are $450 per month there. Insurance is not cheap, and we just finished our annual with just three new tires and brake pads.

The flying club is likely a great idea. If you start hanging out at the local airport FBO lounge it will not be long before you have a network of friends that know everybody else, and find out who is a great mechanic, and who to stay away from. You might stumble into a good deal from pilot ready to retire or one about to move up to a newer and nicer toy. You can go on fly aways and go get a $500 hamburger. Lots of fun your son would love and really bond with you.

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by NeedSpace

interesting that you say Aerobatics first? Is that simply because it'll make me a better pilot? THat was my primary reason for doing it.

Yes, aerobatics will make you a better VFR pilot by leaps-and-bounds. This will in-turn make you a much better IFR student, as the weird sensations you experience by losing one of your senses (sight) will be better coped with by having been in all sorts of flight attitudes from aerobatics training.

[dar636]

Flying is special. I'm all for it. Club flying can be great, check into the options in your area, if you find an active one with a large enough membership the rewards on the social side will be great for you and your son. Also they'll tend to have better maintained aircraft if they have solid $$ base. in my opinion.

I'm on my 4th aircraft, the 5th will be my last most likely and I'm thinking about sharing that one, as I only fly for fun so I'll share it with my airport friends. I quit rationalizing the costs long ago as I do 98% of my own maintenance, and fortunately all of my airplanes have appreciated in value so I'm only out my time and money I'd have spent on something else anyhow.

If you can share the flying experiences with your son it's priceless - it'll last a lifetime.

[dar636]

PS: Fly often, experience is hard to come by. If you buy, and decide on a specific model buy the best one you can find even if you can't afford it. Train, train, train. Tell the FAA nothing, they aren't your friend.

[Dantilla]

I'm currently building an RV-7.

Big advantage of going with an experimental is the ability to maintain it yourself.
With a certified airplane, outside of the very basics like an oil change, all maintenance must be done by a certified mechanic, or at best, a mechanic that will oversee the owner's work enough that he will sign his name in the maintenance logs that the work was performed correctly.

Another advantage is less expensive parts. Such as:
An alternator for a certified airplane MUST come with the proper FAA approval for that particular airplane.
That exact same alternator may be available at the local auto parts store for a fraction of the cost. Legal to use the less expensive one from the auto parts store, yet it is illegal to install it on the certified plane.
Same with avionics. Everybody is going with GPS systems with moving maps. Always expensive to buy the unit that has gone through all the FAA's hoops for approval for installation in a specific certified airplane, whereas the same unit can be had for about half price for the experimental airplanes.

The advantage of owning: Everything in the hangar is just as I left it. The seat adjustment stays where I like it. Nobody has reconfigured the radio stack, or left the tanks empty, or flat-spotted the tires. No candy wrappers behind the seat. Never a scheduling conflict.

And a biggie- When I call for the gas truck to come to my hangar, they know I keep ice cream bars in the freezer. They like me.

[Dantilla]

What does it cost to own an airplane?

All you've got.


Edit: I appreciate Mark knowing his actual costs. I've had a couple Bonanzas similar to Mark's and my bookkeeping system is simple-
Every receipt for the airplane goes in a file, and I never want to look in that file. Ever.
I have no idea what my hourly costs have been, but I love owning an airplane.
An advantage I've had is owning the hangar. I've been in the fortunate position that I was able to pay cash when a hangar became available, so I'm not paying monthly rent, and hangars hold their value, so I will get my money back when I sell.

There used to be a mechanic who is a Bonanza fanatic at my home airport. He treated my airplane like his own baby, and we worked well together to keep costs down.
When he left the airport (the County pretty much ran him off because a wealthy guy with a couple jets wanted his big hangar) maintenance turned into a big enough chore that I decided to go experimental, and perform my own maintenance.
I'm really enjoying the build process (most of the time).
Very different than working on cars. While working on cars, and also in my background in construction, things are typically muscled into position. The whole "Get a bigger hammer" method doesn't work when dealing with thin aluminum. Everything must be finessed, or it's damaged.
It also allows (requires) a whole new set of specialty tools.

[RWebb]

or you could buy a boat and throw money into the ocean

best would be a seaplane - really toss away those bucks!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by RWebb

or you could buy a boat and throw money into the ocean

best would be a seaplane - really toss away those bucks!

Boats are minor league compared to airplanes.