Simple Cloth Masks

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

If masks are so effective and will prevent people from contracting the virus and even deaths then why the uptick in states that require masks? What about the alleged 220,000 deaths did all of those people not wear masks were they "irresponsible and "unpatriotic"? NYC NJ and CT getting ready to shut down the economy again even though every where you look people are wearing masks. I wore a mask at ground zero and still developed respiratory issues and everyday after work when I removed the mask around my mouth and nose was a ring of dust. How did that happen?

Ohio has a mask order in place. There's no enforcement, which there shouldn't need to be, so people don't wear a mask. Recently, WalMart ended their policy that customers entering must wear masks because jackasses made a big deal out of it and caused problems at the store. I know several people now who refused to wear a mask. Two are now dead, One took her mother to the hospital because her mom had covid. Neither wore a mask. The daughter got the virus, took her grandchildren home from school without any wearing a mask. Both grandchildren got the virus as did their mom. A bartender had the virus. 18 people were infected, none wore masks. Would those who died have gotten the virus anyhow? Who knows. But without a mask they got it and they died as a result. I think I would have tested the theory and put a mask on.
This isn't some overly oppressive thing to try. In fact, it's far better than the obvious that will come if the virus keeps spreading and people keep dying. Do we really want to go back to April, May, June? I don't. No one should. Why not give it a try? The opposition to wearing a mask makes no sense to me.

Thank you for your work at ground zero btw. I hope you are well taken care of for what you did.

[Mike80911]

Originally Posted by RWebb

lack of compliance

NY has a large compliance you can not go into a store , restaurant or any public place without a mask yet still cases are increasing.

[Mike80911]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Ohio has a mask order in place. There's no enforcement, which there shouldn't need to be, so people don't wear a mask. Recently, WalMart ended their policy that customers entering must wear masks because jackasses made a big deal out of it and caused problems at the store. I know several people now who refused to wear a mask. Two are now dead, One took her mother to the hospital because her mom had covid. Neither wore a mask. The daughter got the virus, took her grandchildren home from school without any wearing a mask. Both grandchildren got the virus as did their mom. A bartender had the virus. 18 people were infected, none wore masks. Would those who died have gotten the virus anyhow? Who knows. But without a mask they got it and they died as a result. I think I would have tested the theory and put a mask on.
This isn't some overly oppressive thing to try. In fact, it's far better than the obvious that will come if the virus keeps spreading and people keep dying. Do we really want to go back to April, May, June? I don't. No one should. Why not give it a try? The opposition to wearing a mask makes no sense to me.

Thank you for your work at ground zero btw. I hope you are well taken care of for what you did.

I am getting treatment and excellent care thank you. The opposition to wearing it is one thing, weather or not it is effective is another. Giving people a false sense of protection is worse than telling people that the protective equipment is not effective.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Did someone tell you that Physics of Fluids is not peer reviewed ??

Did someone tell you that the "Physics of Fluids" did a study proving simple cloth masks prevent transmission of COVID 19 or studied the transmission of the COVID virus at all?

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

NY has a large compliance you can not go into a store , restaurant or any public place without a mask yet still cases are increasing.

There was a study where something like 85% reported wearing a mask "all the time" and 15% most of the time (IIRC). The problem is, if the 85% wore a mask all the time when out but someone entering their home didn't, that throws the 85% "all the time" right out the window. It's a virus, it's going to spread. Why not do what we can to reduce the spread by what is still considered the greatest path of transmission? Mask, social distancing, proper hygiene.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

I am getting treatment and excellent care thank you. The opposition to wearing it is one thing, weather or not it is effective is another. Giving people a false sense of protection is worse than telling people that the protective equipment is not effective.

I think there needs to be better messaging. Early on people heard Jerome Adams say "stop buying masks! they don't protect you" and took that as gospel without understanding there's a difference between protecting yourself, and an infected person reducing the spread of viral particles.

People for some reason think that masks are a substitute for social distancing. It's not a one step solution to reduce the spread. It's a multifaceted approach and I think better messaging from the early stages of this would have gone a LONG way.

[fintstone]

Every study that I have seen that actually looked at the transmission of respiratory-transmitted disease has not been able to show there any benefit from wearing cloth masks. That is certainly the case with COVID as well.

[cabmandone]

That's because you're reading the study and not understanding the difference between preventing the person wearing the mask from being infected and preventing an infected person from spreading the virus.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by cabmando

That's because you're reading the study and not understanding the difference between preventing the person wearing the mask from being infected and preventing an infected person from spreading the virus.

He's a piece of garbage who only cares about himt.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by cabmando

That's because you're reading the study and not understanding the difference between preventing the person wearing the mask from being infected and preventing an infected person from spreading the virus.

No. There are no studies that show that wearing cloth masks prevent the spread among anyone.

Most are like the study cited by the OP. They make some assumptions (guesses) and apply them to a model that uses a physics equation. It doesn't study/show a single person who got the disease or didn't. It did not study the transmission between people. It only studied a physics model.

[group911@aol.co]

That happened to me once. I had forgotten to plug in my screen. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by fintstone

Every study that I have seen that actually looked at the transmission of respiratory-transmitted disease has not been able to show there any benefit from wearing cloth masks. That is certainly the case with COVID as well.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by fintstone

No. There are no studies that show that wearing cloth masks prevent the spread among anyone.

That would depend on what you consider the major path of spread to be. Since large droplet, close contact is considered the major path, any mask capable of capturing large droplets will reduce the spread of the virus.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

He's a piece of garbage who only cares about himt.

Nope, just smart enough to read the words and understand them. Just because you badly want a magic shield doesn't mean that there actually is one. If you had a real argument, you would not need the name-calling.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by cabmando

That would depend on what you consider the major path of spread to be. Since large droplet, close contact is considered the major path, any mask capable of capturing large droplets will reduce the spread of the virus.

No it wouldn't. What you think doesn't prove anything.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by fintstone

No it wouldn't. What you think doesn't prove anything.

It's not what I think. It's what the people who actually study viral spread think. Until there's proof to the contrary, large particle close contact is the major path of spread. There are studies looking into airborne transmission but as of now they are inconclusive which is why the CDC has not changed their guidelines.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Me desperately trying to incorporate masks threads into parf.

Best so far is a PMS-forum "Politics, Masks, and Supernatural forum"

meh....

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by fintstone

No. There are no studies that show that wearing cloth masks prevent the spread among anyone.

Most are like the study cited by the OP. They make some assumptions (guesses) and apply them to a model that uses a physics equation. It doesn't study/show a single person who got the disease or didn't. It did not study the transmission between people. It only studied a physics model.

sad you don't "believe in" physics

but you are wrong in your 1st paragraph:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342198360_Association_of_country-wide_coronavirus_mortality_with_demographics_testi ng_lockdowns_and_public_wearing_of_masks_Update_Ju ne_15_2020


there are also a number of laboratory studies:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2#Sec3

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by cabmando

It's not what I think. It's what the people who actually study viral spread think. Until there's proof to the contrary, large particle close contact is the major path of spread. There are studies looking into airborne transmission but as of now they are inconclusive which is why the CDC has not changed their guidelines.

I can only respond to what you say.

That said, it doesn't matter what others think either. That is not proof. Studying "transmission" as how it flies through the air is not the same as studying "transmission" ...where people catch the disease or not (with any number of variables) with mask wear or not. For example, your wearing a mask in a grocery store may keep the person in front of you from catching the disease, but may make you or the person behind you catch it...or it may have no effect at all.

If separate components untested together always behaved as we expect, we would not race cars. We would just compare physics models and use our expertise "what we think" as data. It is like assuming that the world was not round because no one fell off...until we knew about gravity.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by RWebb

sad you don't "believe in" physics

but you are wrong in your 1st paragraph:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342198360_Association_of_country-wide_coronavirus_mortality_with_demographics_testi ng_lockdowns_and_public_wearing_of_masks_Update_Ju ne_15_2020


there are also a number of laboratory studies:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2#Sec3

Nice try, but no. Those do not prove your case. They do not even claim to.

..and of course I believe Physics...the difference is, I understand Physics...at least a little.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I can only respond to what you say.

That said, it doesn't matter what others think either. That is not proof. Studying "transmission" as how it flies through the air is not the same as studying "transmission" ...where people catch the disease or not (with any number of variables) with mask wear or not. For example, your wearing a mask in a grocery store may keep the person in front of you from catching the disease, but may make you or the person behind you catch it...or it may have no effect at all.

If separate components untested together always behaved as we expect, we would not race cars. We would just compare physics models and use our expertise "what we think" as data. It is like assuming that the world was not round because no one fell off...until we knew about gravity.

I'll be honest, I don't even know how to respond to that nonsense. It's truly stunning.