New Fuel Developed by Porsche!

[Luccia at Pelican Parts]

As more and more places around the world start to say "no more gasoline," will this be able to save the combustion engine? Believe it or not, Porsche just announced their plan to work with Siemens Energy in which they will create the world's first industrial-scale synthetic fuel factory. They will be utilizing wind energy which will enable them to split water into hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis. Read more details about it below.

How is synthetic fuel any different than gasoline? It's carbon-neutral, meaning the carbon emitted from burning it is only equal to the carbon sequestered in producing it. The synthetic "e-fuel" Porsche and Siemens plan to produce will be made by using wind energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis - the reverse process of a hydrogen fuel cell car like the Toyota Mirai - and combining that hydrogen with carbon-dioxide filtered out of the atmosphere to create synthetic methanol. The methanol will then be converted into synthetic gasoline through a process pioneered by - and licensed from - Exxon.

The first e-fuel production plant will be placed in Southern Chile. Michael Steiner, during an interview at a virtual roundtable, stated:

"If we have to import energy, we could choose whether we import fossil energy or renewable energy. Synthetic fuel is not a direct competition to e-mobility, it is in addition to e-mobility - something that we see as an important second track.

It's obvious it looks like this will not be something that happens overnight, and will take some time. What are your thoughts on the entire idea?


Source here

[fastfredracing]

I find it incredibly fascinating . What a game changer that would be .

[RWebb]

The Germans have a history with Syn fuels

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by RWebb

The Germans have a history with Syn fuels

And scientists/workers exploding

[Fast Freddy 944]

Cool, so its safe to say that this new fuel will keep all gas engines churning into the future. Friggen awesome!

[kach22i]

It's good to have options.

[pwd72s]

Doesn't it still take more energy to produce hydrogen than it contains?

[RWebb]

time for a thermodynamics course

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Doesn't it still take more energy to produce hydrogen than it contains?

Pretty much.. What happens when there's no wind for the turbines? Sounds like a huge tax write off for all involved.

Doesnt methanol have a super high flash point?

[Arizona_928]

Currently used in coal to methanol to gas (mtg).
The only difference is the electrolysis of water to hydrogen. Which takes lots of energy. Wind is smart, but not that dependable. Would be funnier to see hydroelectric.


Anyways. Definitely not new.

[Fast Freddy 944]

Remember we can still drill, so crude oil will be with us for a long time, and you know what? Im good with that...

[kach22i]

I think the no carbon added to the environment is bogus, only true until the fuel is actually used.

[fastfredracing]

$40.00 a gallon makes it somewhat less interesting

[GH85Carrera]

With the energy needed and used to mine the components and make the solar cells, build the plant, and produce the fuel the payback in carbon emissions alone will be longer than the solar cells last. It is just an unfortunate fact of physics. Porsche started as a design company, and still just design many products for other companies. Lets hope they can invent some new technology to be more efficient. They are not using my money to try, so power to them. I hope they have a successful implementation. I am not betting on it.

[flatbutt]

We currently make methanol from corn don't we? Which is less expensive corn or hydrolysis?

Methanol flashes at 55 F -ish

At least people are thinking about alternatives.

[Porchdog]

Ethanol from corn. Methanol is typically from cellulose.

I worked on a project to produce jet fuel from ethanol - as ethanol is "renewable". So the ethanol gets converted to ethane through a catalytic process, undesirable fractions are separated (methane, butane etc), then the ethane is used as the base stock to synthesize the fuel hydrocarbon chains desired.

We had no process responsibility - we just designed and built the vessels and plumbing to meet the specifications of the scientists.

I was shocked (offended actually) at how much electricity was used to convert a small amount of ethanol to a small amount of ethane. I still can't wrap my head around how it makes any sense to waste so many BTU's of electricity to be able to call a fuel "green".

[onewhippedpuppy]

Porchdog makes a great point, rarely do these green technologies take into account the total impact and energy input required. Just like people feeling smug with an electric car totally clueless where the electricity comes from, or that the materials to make their batteries is strip mined by borderline slave labor in third world countries.

[RWebb]

you seem clueless where the electricity comes from - try a search using the term 2020

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by RWebb

you seem clueless where the electricity comes from - try a search using the term 2020

You mean how greater than 60% is still provided by fossil fuels? Less than 20% powered by renewable?

[RWebb]

you need to distinguish NG from coal, whippie

and BTW, wind is big in Kansass