The Army has a new cannon

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by jyl

How good are the CIWCs defense weapons like the Phalanx? Are they effective against drones that are small, maneuverable and numerous?

Although I did all my "cruises" on Frigates and Aegis Class Cruisers, and stared at CWIS every landing, there are some folks here, CrustyChief in particular, that can better answer that question.

What I can tell you Navy ships don't carry boatloads (I apologize) of missiles and ammunition, they just don't. The Swarm scenario is meant to overwhelm with numbers, expecting losses, as well as to deplete ships stores.

Also, and CrustyChief will have better insight, UAS flying below what is called the "Doppler notch" (less than 60mph) used to confuse Aegis and CWIS since they were designed to protect against high speed targets.

I know changes have been made but not to what degree. Probably something we shouldn't know.

Lastly, there are more ways to render a ship ineffective than sinking it...

[DonDavis]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

Well the targeting system does

I am a former US Navy battleship sailor and I operated the targeting system on the big guns.

That was my subtle jab at Army’s cheating scandal at West Point.
Bunch of cadets were popped for cheating on calculus exams.

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by fred cook

If I remember correctly, the 16" guns on the American battleships had a range of about 24 miles. The longest range ship gun used in WWII was the 18" gun on the two Japanese battleships the Yamato and the Musashi with a range of 26 miles. And, yes, that would be over the horizon at sea level!

I toured the battleship NJ. ~24 mile range, 2,700 lb projectile, every 30 seconds for up to about 1/2 hour. That's a lot of metal in the air. Ship was built in the early 40's. Later armed with Tomahawk missile with a range of 1,500 miles.

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by DonDavis

I am a former US Navy battleship sailor and I operated the targeting system on the big guns.

That was my subtle jab at Army’s cheating scandal at West Point.
Bunch of cadets were popped for cheating on calculus exams.

We had a guy from GMI (what's it called now?) doing a sabbatical at Co Mines back in '97-98 and he was a huge navy gun geek. He had some amazing talks on how the barrels work (btw we can't make them anymore) and how non-exciting it was to shoot one. You're in the bowels of the ship and you pull a trigger. Barely a shudder to feel.

Amazing that we had nukes to go down those barrels...

[Sooner or later]

11" Atomic Annie. The one that actually fired a nuclear round is on display at Ft Sill. A couple miles from my house.
Not my pic.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by DonDavis

That was my subtle jab at Army’s cheating scandal at West Point.
Bunch of cadets were popped for cheating on calculus exams.

Hadn't heard that one , I know the USAF academy had issues like that in the sixties, Robin Olds was sent over to sort it out..

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55407459#:~:text=Dozens%20of%20West%20Point%20cade ts,because%20of%20the%20coronavirus%20pandemic.

I'm surprised , with West Points super strong emphasis on their honor code, they are allowed to continue after cheating

but no, six month rehabilitation programme and allowed to graduate..
While at the same time stating that the honor code is going strong and working as designed?

Kinda stains the record for those graduating that class, and not having cheated...

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Hadn't heard that one , I know the USAF academy had issues like that in the sixties, Robin Olds was sent over to sort it out..

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55407459#:~:text=Dozens%20of%20West%20Point%20cade ts,because%20of%20the%20coronavirus%20pandemic.

I'm surprised , with West Points super strong emphasis on their honor code, they are allowed to continue after cheating

but no, six month rehabilitation programme and allowed to graduate..
While at the same time stating that the honor code is going strong and working as designed?

Kinda stains the record for those graduating that class, and not having cheated...

I am nearly done reading The Long Gray Line by Atkinson which is about the 1966 West Point graduating class. Later in the book it delves into the mess of the 1976 WP scandal. It gives a lot of insight into the thought process of both sides. It is a spectacular book. Details that you would never think happens at rhe Academy or in Nam.

This is a piece of the book about Nam. Gives you an idea of the quality of the writing.

"With Lindseth at the lead, Bravo Company took the entire day to reach the base of the besieged Hill. The toppled trees and debris from the bombs and artillery shells reminded Lindseth of the rubble of a 20 story building. At an abandoned NVA base camp, they passed dead enemy soldiers--blasted to pieces by artillery--in a heap of Chinese dressings. Moving cautiously through the position once held by Kiley's Alpha Company, they saw both sides of the trail carpeted with dead Americans and North Vietnamese. Some of the paratroopers had small holes in their foreheads, the mark of an execution. The relief column passed Carlos Lozanda, slumped on a cairn of spent M60 casings, still clutching his jammed machine gun. Lindseth had never seen more than one dead American at a time; here, dozens covered the ground.

At 5 pm, unmolested by the NVA, Leanord's company pushed into the 2nd Battalions perimeter. The survivors cried with relief at the sight of the rescue party, and the paratroopers distributed food, water, and ammunition."

[beatnavy]

Originally Posted by svandamme

I'm surprised , with West Points super strong emphasis on their honor code, they are allowed to continue after cheating

but no, six month rehabilitation programme and allowed to graduate..
While at the same time stating that the honor code is going strong and working as designed?

Kinda stains the record for those graduating that class, and not having cheated...

Almost all those involved were beanheads (aka plebes, aka freshmen). Punishment under the honor code is supposed to incorporate several considerations including amount of time the individual has been educated under and subject to the system. If these were cows (juniors) or firsties (seniors) they'd be gone.

Having said that, all of us grads received an email from the LTG Williams, the Superintendent, rationalizing the punishment (or lack of punishment). In general, the alma mater are not particularly happy with how this went down.

[svandamme]

thx for clarifying, either way, It sucks for those in the same year that didn't cheat.

Anybody who ever comes a cross a West Pointer of that class will have the cheating scandal in the back of their mind.. was it one of those?

Unless the cheaters somehow graduate with a mark on their paper which would kind of be a hard to combine with a WP graduation ring
like "he's a cheater but he's still WP top material"

very weird if you ask me.. To go through all that trouble to get to WP.. knowing what it stands for.. and cheat....

or going through all the trouble, putting in all the effort.. and then get your class stained with something you can't fix yourself.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by DonDavis

I am a former US Navy battleship sailor and I operated the targeting system on the big guns.

That was my subtle jab at Army’s cheating scandal at West Point.
Bunch of cadets were popped for cheating on calculus exams.

A good friend of mine taught at the West Point University just a few years ago. To paraphrase him: the personal qualities of the cadets is not very good these days, as teachers they were told to get people thru and not grade hard, cadets weren't very bright.

So this latest scandal doesn't surprise me one bit. The real question is ... Will any meaningful thing happen to those involved? Doubt it