I think the timing is not as important as getting the gun on the nut with a huge shove. I read earlier that RF tire gun guy is one their best. I also read that the nut wouldn't come off after they pulled the car into the garage. They were going to take it back to the factory to cut it off.

The NASCAR guys do run the gun before hitting the hex nut. But those aren't your everyday lug nuts.

There's a little more to this story yet to be told. A redesign was mentioned for sure, either in materials or overall design. Or both.

Interesting that there is a local PCA member that works where they make these kinds of single lock nuts. I don't know who the customers are or what series. He doesn't talk about his job much.

Maybe one of you smart guys can investigate this wheel nut thing.

Here are some 2012 nuts from Caterham F1 for sale only $199!!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114157575184


I'm pretty sure these are beyond antiquated by now

I saw this on TV at some point


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This one is a little newer

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Here’s a link to he video. Oops!

Back in 2010 I spent a year as design lead for the all the Ferrari F1 pit stop stuff, while watching the races on the TV I hid behind the sofa when it came to the pit stops part :eek:

From memory it took 1.5 turns or 4 impacts to tighten the nut. Each nut cost well over a $1000, new nuts were used each race, many more worn out with practice pit stops and the team chewed through a lot of nuts but never luckily mine :D

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/f1-photo-of-ferraris-new-wheel-nut-for-faster-pit-stops/33648/?folder=industry

F1 wheel nuts are a extremely finicky things to get right, clearances are critical, there are no limits and fits tables to refer to, the starting engagement chamfer at the beginning of the wheel nut thread is especially tricky to get right. Then factor in the extreme operating environment ie hot, dusty, being smashed by a socket positioned by a mechanic while the nut is moving in a different position every time

Fast guys have the wheel nut off the axle before the car has come to a stop. Every repeated/wrong movement by a mechanic costs a minimum 0.3 sec just from their reaction time. Game over when a fast pit stop takes less than 2 secs

The wheel guns are monsters, manufactured by only one Italy company, I've used one myself during practice pit stops. After 3 or 4 goes I quickly worked out, pit stops are a young mans game and the wheel gun job is a young strong mans game
https://www.dinopaoli.com/en/wp-content/uploads/PAOLI_PITSTOPSERIES_CATALOGUE2021_LOW2.pdf

F1 guns are built from titanium, carbon fiber and magnesium. The current guns have a max torque up 4300 Nm or 3170 ftlbs, operating at 25 bar or 360 PSI can free rev to 15000 RPM. Basically as seen from the video it's an effective lathe in your hands if used incorrectly

Back when I was involved the guns were so wild to use we were starting to break mechanics. I started to design a carbon fibre wrist exoskeleton for the next season but thankfully the FIA put a limit on the operating pressure

Teams do 1000's of practice pit stops back at the factory and at race weekends as there are always new ways for it to go wrong. Looks like Mercedes found a new way!

My amateur observation is that 3170 ft.lbs of torque (Damn!) wasn't quite enough to back off the center nut, but enough to destroy the drive splines. Thus, either the nut material didn't meet spec or machined incorrectly for the operating conditions and thus failed during the attempted loosening and/or seized on the spindle threads.

Does Paoli PitStop also recommend a dab of anti-seize on the threads during each 2 second pit stop. :-) Maybe that was missing on Botta's ill-fated stop. I guess Toto missed that thread here on PParts.

S

Random Monaco pic....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1621935238.jpg

I heard the TV announcers discussing room rates at the hotel. The said the hotel that did not grantee a track view was $36,791 per NIGHT! Who know what it is for a good track view. That is just insane. I would like to see the Monaco GP in person, but several days in that hotel would be more than the cost of a nice house around here. I am sure some of the other hotels are a bit cheaper, but dang.

No Red Roof Inn in Monaco I'm guessing.

Less random Monaco pics:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1621948104.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1621948163.jpg

Does the #36k room include her?

I doubt it. Plus that pic is at least 2 years old.

They probably don't have a Motel 6 where they leave the light on for you either :D I wouldn't be surprised that gal may charge 35K a night .

No mask is a give away.

I've looked into ticket prices for Monaco before, IIRC the actual ticket cost is reasonable and not any different than othe race.

I've heard/read that most folks train in from outlying areas. Nice is only a 30 minute train ride.

The Fairmont is about €500 per night any other time. Dang, that's a huge price increase.

https://www.fairmont.com/reservations/select-room/

We went to Canadian GP in 2006 and 2007. The hotels were stupid expensive on race weekends but nothing like Monaco.

“Valtteri stopped a little too early,” said Wolff, quoted by Auto Motor und Sport, as suggested the Finn had pulled up slightly short of his marks.


“This meant the mechanic had to apply the impact wrench at an angle. The awkward angle damaged the wheel nut and we couldn’t bring it down.”

I wouldn't be watching the race with her around. My my my!!!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Man that's harsh. The comments in the article are great. My fav: go ahead and blame Bottas for Hamilton issues too

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolff-valtteri-bottas-wheel-nut/

ouch, blaming on valtteri.

hes out at mercedes next year, for sure. they are treating him like trash.

Another dubious statement by Toto.

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Glen: I think I dislike Hammy even more after seeing this. What say you?

Horner's comments at about 1:40

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Nuts, nuts, nuts...

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Interesting comments by James about the team's ethos about standing up in the face of adversity and accepting that things may go sideways but you assess and move forward.

I guess that doesn't apply to one of the drivers who is a team guy when winning but shares no blame when it goes tango uniform.

Great explanation of the multitude of things the strategists are considering what strategy to implement. Maybe they should explain that internally

^ Once admitted to the Peerage, you assign blame. Accepting blame is for the plebes.

Ham would find a reason to ***** publicly about his race if he lapped the field.

Do I sense a slant against Hamilton here? No sure what he said that got the feathers ruffled. He opined that challenger Verstoppen had more to prove than he did. True...What did I miss? (not the golden girl on the Monaco balcony).

... and if they were head-to-head on track, Hamilton thinks both would be careful not to take each other out. Seems reasonable to me. We'll see about that.

As for team play, each race group has depts. that manage, design, manufactures/preps the cars and manages race strategy. Hamilton provides professional setup feedback, does the driving and risks his life to win races. They all have professional duties and responsibilities to make up a WC F1 team. Each group must excel for team success. Seems to work. Seems to work better w/o suits introducing politics and made-for-press-drama in an attempt to keep everyone on their toes (including race fans) and create unnecessary pressure.

It's good to occasionally remind everyone of their expendibility but w/o fear and intimidation. However, obscene salaries, lifestyle payments and racing legacies are at stake and that sometimes brings out the worse in some people. Management should weed dead weight out of the hierarchy.

Were some of you guys around when Senna, Prost, Schumacher and many, many others were slugging it out for fame and notoriety? This is nothing.

MHO,
Sherwood

Well, since you ask, I was around when Lauda, Peterson, Reggazoni, Laffite, Gilles, Andretti, James Hunt and the like were touring with the Grand Prix circus, eating Rob Walker's wife's brownies and playing backgammon on the pitwall during rainstorms.

So, yeah, I've been paying attention for a long time, and Hamilton, in spite of his wins and championships and millions has yet to earn my respect. Sorry, it's just the way I feel.

^^^^

That's all very true.....but you should have seen them all together at The Seneca Lodge (Watkins Glen), on race weekends. More like Frat brothers than snarky race car drivers.

I think the reason Hamilton was so p/o d was he had been managing his tires with the belief that the late pit stop overcut would allow him to make up a place or two. His race engineer went for the undercut which lost him two places. The Mercedes struggled to warm up the tires. That made the outlap slower. I don't think anyone here,if they had been in the same position would have just passed it off as no big deal.

Best
Les

Bit different topic
 

There's talk of making changes to Monaco circuit to make it less boring. Why not a bit smaller car, with a little less front wing somewhere between these twohttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1622119858.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1622119930.jpg

Copy to Ross Brawn

One reason I can’t stand the current F1 cars is illustrated above, how obnoxiously large they have become, especially their overall length. This comparison should help:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1622120367.png

Just like the road cars of today, a lot of the size is mandated by safety equipment. I bet all the drivers really like the crush zones and the engineering used to keep the drivers alive. No way would the smaller generation of cars would have kept Grogean alive in his crash.

No doubt that modern F1 cars are a lot safer and that’s a good thing. However, a good percentage of the recent growth in the length is behind the cockpit, not in front of it.

The Principality would probably rather have smaller cars, than push casinos into the harbour. That track is going to be hard to make over for these BIG cars.

A shorter car, a little narrower, and do something with that wing that pretty well makes it impossible to pass.

I'll pass it on to Ross when he calls.

It's been a dumb place to race since the races there started. As such, the Indy 500 and LeMans 24 will disappear before the Monaco GP does.
Try to imagine how much of the business - B 2 B - of F1 goes on in Monaco.

Yea, the super rich get to play and show each other how rich they are. When billionaires play, there are lots of support staff and lots of deal making done.

And the nut is off. If you don't like the dentist turn the volume down or off

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36558356/bottas-f1-wheel-nut-removed/

Well, it’s about freaking time.

“Heavy duty machinery”... LOL...

"cross-threaded"...pfffttt