Bitcoin crash coming?

[tabs]

On SNL...Elon was asked what is DOGE coin? He said, "It was a hustle." DoGE coin immediately dropped in value according to the BBC...

When I think of Crypto I somehow start thinking about Tulips...hmmm...

Yeah there is money in trading the hustle...but you better be out when the music stops or you will get left standing holding the bag and it aint gona be full of gold either.

Reason why Crypto is so hot..the USD has wobbled and is getting shakier by the day...so let us pass that 4T Biden spending bill...YAY....and let the FED keep on printing...and aneven bigger YAY....

Problem with the Crypto is you can't hold it in your hand..it isn't even made of air..just an electronic flow of electrons through a wire... As I have said and now the BBC...Gold, silver, land has an INTRINSIC VALUE of it's own..

Gold and Silver is portable and more importantly HISTORICALLY is universally accepted as having value..5000 years of human history can not be wrong. And yes Gold and Silver are being heavily manipulated to suppress value..I wonder why that is???

One day the powers that be are gona wake up and find a populist move into Gold and SIlver where the manipulation will no longer be work...BA last year was saying 3K, KITCO was at 5k.. And guys like Rickard were looking at the Gold to USD ratio and came up with $50,000 an oz


Yep there is lots of money to be made out there..so much in fact that you all can become rich...WOW I GET DIZZY JUST THINKING ABOUT IT...it even makes mr willy bigger than I have seen it in years..Man it just can't get better than this...

Then I remember the famous words of old Joe Kennedy...that when he heard cabbies and shoe shine boys talking about all the money that they made in the stock market....he got out of the market...in a few months time Stock Brokers were jumping out of windows and lots of people were wiped out....

Then I start to think about all of the monetary strings that the FED is pulling to keep the fking ship afloat...and Man did my mr willy just shrink up or what!!!

Sumthin stinks around here and it ain't the brown stuff I just did in my pants...only chumps, suckers and fools wouldn't be scared shytless either that or they are full blown psycho..

The FED has increased monetary supply by 26% in the past year....AND IS INCREASING IT BY 120B EVERY month... man is it any fkin wonder why the USD just wobbled after a shot to the like that...it has put the whole world on fkin queer street...and what makes it even more fkin terrible is that the whole world economy revolves around the very USD that they are fkin with..talk about consequences....

Well people are scared and are running to sumthin that seems safe to them which is ??? out of the orbit of the USD.. can you say CRYPTO...

It all amounts to another avoidance of having to face reality and face the pain as a consequence of your behavior. In other words you have brought this shyte upon yourselves through your perceptional mindset of believing you are the same rich nation of past glories (the corollary of course is that someone else is to blame for the screw up and if we just got the right policies in place it would all be hunky dory again..swell) .. I am the voice in the wilderness on this one. I have yet to hear one other soul articulate this insight...

Not getting it, not seeing it is what has doomed you all...you are going right to the bottom..where your silly notions will be knocked right out of your fkin heads..being cold and hungry will do that to people.

BTW..sumthin that most do not fully get..is that there are indivdual perceptions and there are also COLLECTIVE/Societal or Animal Spirit perceptions. They are intertwined. You have to have personal clarity to be able to delineate the difference and to know which is reality and which is fantasy. Americans by and larger are living in a fantasy world of being a rich nation as exemplified by the CIC President Joe Biden saying, "We can afford it"..sic another 2.3T spending bill... At some point you have to stop thinking you can afford it...either by reality intervening or by realization....well we is past the point of realization the die has been cast..the shyte has taken on a life of it's own..just like WW1 where both sides realaized it was a losing game but could not get out of it..they were committed.

[Skillet83]

Tabs, I have always respected your thoughts and think we share similar views. But, the doom porn has been going on for years. How long can they keep the ponzi going? I have no idea, but it seems a long dang time. Been hearing Tulips since back to 2017. I did well in 2017, got out way ahead. MC is now over 2T, still very small, but has expanded. When MC is 10T, are you still gonna call tulips?
I admit, we are in a bull run, but this is not going away. If you cannot see the enormity of opportunities in this sphere right now, OK. I have one coin (XLM) up over 1000% since October. I do not trade, buy and hold. The bulk of my net is real estate and equities, play money is crypto. Play money has become real money. BTW, I hold a nice stack of the silver stuff, just in case.

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

I also think that the energy usage for mining Bitcoin is absolutely terrible, and perhaps the worst thing to happen to the planet in decades. Nearly everyone who promotes Bitcoin refuses to admit the scope of this issue.

-Wayne

So funny how 1000 years of mining gold for investment holdings and jewelry has never seen as much pearl clutching as Bitcoin mining suddenly has... Less than 10 percent of gold mining is used for utility like tech...

If crypto takes over the banking system (a Proof of Stake unlike Bitcoin which is Proof of Work) it will be MORE efficient in the end. Current banking system is still 3 or 4 times bitcoin energy consumption, obviously servicing a lot of people. But a POS like Ethereum (soon) would cut energy consumption by 99%. Technically Bitcoin could move to POS too if consensus is reached to do so.

People saying it has no utility are just unwilling to learn what crypto actually does. Keep your heads in the sand its no skin off my azz but if you want to actually learn and form an opinion on facts then go watch the lecture series MIT has online, Blockchain and Money, taught by Gensler who is now chairman of the SEC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6vE97qIP4

Its very informative if you actually care to put in the time and learn, instead of regurgitate headlines (speaking to all posters here)

[Wayne 962]

Hmmm, it's my opinion that the comparison to 1,000 years of mining gold is a straw man argument. No one is going to argue that mining gold is a terrible, dirty business that destroys the environment - that has been discussed for decades.

It's very clear to me and especially after reading all the comments here that Bitcoin and other currencies are similar to a multi-level marketing system. The only reason why people are investing in them at this point (admitted by nearly 100% of everyone on this thread) is that they are hoping that someone comes along in the future and pays them more for it. That is the technical definition of a speculative asset, and very similar to how multi-level marketing works. The MLM systems depend upon other people buying up and replacing the investments that the early adopters have made.

Having said that, there is money to be made in MLM systems, *if* you're an early adopter. But, technically, it cannot appreciate without bringing more people to the party. Bitcoin currently has very little practical usage beyond being an untraceable method for illegal activities. Virtually one takes Bitcoin these days (not even Tesla any more). It's not very useful from a pure practical standpoint using the classical definition of a currency - it's more like a storehouse of value. But, its value is only built upon the willingness of people to accept it and trade it in exchange for goods and services, or a different currency that then can be used to buy goods and services.

The discussion of speculative assets goes bananas when considering Dogecoin. I'm not sure the people "investing" (betting) on this even know that this is an inflationary asset? The miners are minting something like 10,000+ new coins a day, so the crypto coin has a built-in "poison pill" that will self-destruct itself with time? Crazy - people buying this stuff are really naive and/or simply gambling. Then again, the Vegas casinos are a billion-dollar business, and people still blow money all the time there, even though they know they cannot win. Perhaps in the short term, the Dogecoin odds are better, as long as other people who don't know anything are buying in. Here's a good, brief article on why this is just a bad idea: https://www.coindesk.com/buy-dogecoin-risk

Fascinating news today about Elon and Tesla abandoning Bitcoin because of its environmental impact (Bitcoin miners use more electricity than the entire country of Sweden). I guess Elon finally recognized the irony of being one of the most prolific supporters of reducing emissions, while advocating cryptos that completely negate that premise. It's depressing to think that the miners use that amount of energy just to "solve puzzles" that don't add value and don't improve mankind. It's actually quite sad to think of all of the coal factories in China burning coal just so that miners can mine Bitcoin. Sorry, it's perverse to me. I think this will be the sticking point and the end-all of the blockchain in the future. It's easy for me to imagine that the US and Europe will ban the use of Bitcoin due to the obscene energy waste that occurs.

We'll see...

-Wayne

[cstreit]

Wayne, the only reason BTC is devastating to the environment is the speculators. It a diminishing returns business. The more that is created, the harder and more expensive it is to create.

If the speculation stopped and the price went down to $20k then at least half of the mining would shut off because it would no longer be profitable. It’s designed to be in balance, except the exuberant speculator keeps dragging it upwards. Hell even my 5 year old outdated asic miners are profitable once again because the speculation has driven the price up. I turned them back on.

That said, I justify my electric usage because they are in my electrically heated garage. I can heat it with my 240V heaters, or my Bitcoin miners. Oneburns money, the other creates it.

Doge coin is a joke. Ethereum has promise and I think will live because it supports the current fad of NFT’s..

[sammyg2]

[island911]

slayed ^

Originally Posted by cstreit

Wayne, the only reason BTC is devastating to the environment is the speculators...

That said, I justify my electric usage because they are in my electrically heated garage. I can heat it with my 240V heaters, or my Bitcoin miners. Oneburns money, the other creates it..

One creates value (a comfortable garage) the other creates a marker?

[Aurel]

For mining bitcoins, a $15k rig (with 6 video cards) will yield about $135/day, at present Bitcoin value (counting electricity costs).

So on a yearly basis, the yield is 135*365 =$49,275/15,000 = 328%
Not bad at all! it means an initial investment of $30k can generate almost $100k yearly income.

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

It's very clear to me and especially after reading all the comments here that Bitcoin and other currencies are similar to a multi-level marketing system. The only reason why people are investing in them at this point (admitted by nearly 100% of everyone on this thread) is that they are hoping that someone comes along in the future and pays them more for it. That is the technical definition of a speculative asset, and very similar to how multi-level marketing works.
-Wayne

Isn't this the exact same argument for gold?

Do you actually know anyone who is buying gold to process it and make something with it? Or do they all just buy it in hope that someone will come along later and buy it at a higher price?

[Roswell]

Do you actually know anyone who is buying gold to process it and make something with it?

Yep, there are literally hundreds of manufacturing processes that require gold. use an iPhone? Its got gold in it. https://www.usgoldbureau.com/news/golden-apple-40-million-worth-of-precious-metals

Can you name one where BTC is actually used?

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by Roswell

Do you actually know anyone who is buying gold to process it and make something with it?

Yep, there are literally hundreds of manufacturing processes that require gold. use an iPhone? Its got gold in it. https://www.usgoldbureau.com/news/golden-apple-40-million-worth-of-precious-metals

Can you name one where BTC is actually used?

What are US Dollars used to manufacture? If I take a bundle of dollars to the US treasury, what can I get for them?

Is your retirement fund secured in physical currency or in the banks computer? If you want it, what will you exchange it for?

I can convert Bitcoin to cash any time I want. How is that any different than converting your retirement funds electrons to cash?

[Roswell]

There is no true demand for BTC.

This was the question: Do you actually know anyone who is buying gold to process it and make something with it?

I provided an answer. Don't be rude.

And my 'retirement funds' are molecular in nature...

[Roswell]

Don't get me wrong, I see the potential, but found this humorous...

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by Roswell

Yep, there are literally hundreds of manufacturing processes that require gold. use an iPhone? Its got gold in it. https://www.usgoldbureau.com/news/golden-apple-40-million-worth-of-precious-metals

And does that utility justify the price of gold, or is it because that vast majority is held as a store of value, with those people holding it hoping to will be worth more in the future?

I'd argue the latter, which according to this thread, is the definition of a MLM.

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by Roswell

Do you actually know anyone who is buying gold to process it and make something with it?

Yep, there are literally hundreds of manufacturing processes that require gold. use an iPhone? Its got gold in it. https://www.usgoldbureau.com/news/golden-apple-40-million-worth-of-precious-metals

Can you name one where BTC is actually used?

As stated before... less than 10 percent of mined gold is used for utility. Its like 7% I think. so who has the other 90%? Investors and speculators. Anyone who applies this logic from bitcoin being mlm could apply the same to almost all other investments, its broad strokes and not thought through, no offense to anyone here.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Aurel

For mining bitcoins, a $15k rig (with 6 video cards) will yield about $135/day, at present Bitcoin value (counting electricity costs).

So on a yearly basis, the yield is 135*365 =$49,275/15,000 = 328%
Not bad at all! it means an initial investment of $30k can generate almost $100k yearly income.

That's really interesting.

A I understand, China is burning lots of coal to 'mine' this 'coin.' - give China more of your USD...

BTW, it cracks me up that words like "mine" and "Coin" are used to associate this vapor product as something like gold coin. All the while, claiming that gold is no better. ...than this "coin" that is "Mined" that just happens to have a "Gold" marketing image.

SMH

[Roswell]

As tabs pointed out earlier in the thread, many believe that the price of gold and silver are heavily manipulated and suppressed. Since the beginning of time, various metals have been the trading capital of commerce.

Don't get me wrong, I get the appeal of crypto currency. Go for it. I truly hope you become wealthy from your investments. My only point is that every investment has a down side, or risk. And the faster that investment increases in value, the greater the risk.

I love trading. Anything from scalping a few pips before lunch to nailing a swing trade that took weeks to develop and close. My only comment is that there is a difference between holding physical gold and silver and holding BTC. I know from experience that you have to diversify your portfolio and spread your risk.

Good Luck to you!

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

Hmmm, it's my opinion that the comparison to 1,000 years of mining gold is a straw man argument. No one is going to argue that mining gold is a terrible, dirty business that destroys the environment - that has been discussed for decades. Was not meant as an argument, just an observation of comparison in thinking of the "old guard." As in, "their way" was not really seen as a problem like this "new" way. Just interesting and expected.

It's very clear to me and especially after reading all the comments here that Bitcoin and other currencies are similar to a multi-level marketing system. The only reason why people are investing in them at this point (admitted by nearly 100% of everyone on this thread) is that they are hoping that someone comes along in the future and pays them more for it. That is the technical definition of a speculative asset, and very similar to how multi-level marketing works. The MLM systems depend upon other people buying up and replacing the investments that the early adopters have made. this broad logic can be applied to any investment vehicle, anything applied this broadly can just be "greater fool" at work, take time to learn what crypto does and can do and youll see otherwise

The discussion of speculative assets goes bananas when considering Dogecoin. I'm not sure the people "investing" (betting) on this even know that this is an inflationary asset? The miners are minting something like 10,000+ new coins a day, so the crypto coin has a built-in "poison pill" that will self-destruct itself with time? Crazy - people buying this stuff are really naive and/or simply gambling. Then again, the Vegas casinos are a billion-dollar business, and people still blow money all the time there, even though they know they cannot win. Perhaps in the short term, the Dogecoin odds are better, as long as other people who don't know anything are buying in. Here's a good, brief article on why this is just a bad idea: https://www.coindesk.com/buy-dogecoin-risk Agreed, I actually think its like 10,000 minted a minute! Anyone with real knowledge in cryptocurrency will tell you doge is a time bomb

Fascinating news today about Elon and Tesla abandoning Bitcoin because of its environmental impact (Bitcoin miners use more electricity than the entire country of Sweden). I guess Elon finally recognized the irony of being one of the most prolific supporters of reducing emissions, while advocating cryptos that completely negate that premise. It's depressing to think that the miners use that amount of energy just to "solve puzzles" that don't add value and don't improve mankind. It's actually quite sad to think of all of the coal factories in China burning coal just so that miners can mine Bitcoin. Sorry, it's perverse to me. I think this will be the sticking point and the end-all of the blockchain in the future. It's easy for me to imagine that the US and Europe will ban the use of Bitcoin due to the obscene energy waste that occurs.
Tesla did not abandon, they are still running a node and will not sell their stock of coins, but will not accept payment for now. Depressing? Really? Many see the current banking system as perverse in the way you see bitcoin, but see bitcoin or some proof of stake/work crypto as the savior. Current system props up wealthy, fractional banking steals your money with leverage while paying you nothing in return. Then when the system collapses, tax payers write the check AGAIN. No thanks, there must be a better way, hopefully in this crypto wild west something emerges. I think thats the best the crypto community can hope for. Change is always messy, especially when it comes to power and money, so give it 20 years and I agree, we'll see...

We'll see...

-Wayne

..

[Roswell]

Originally Posted by ShopCat

As stated before... less than 10 percent of mined gold is used for utility. Its like 7% I think. so who has the other 90%? Investors and speculators. Anyone who applies this logic from bitcoin being mlm could apply the same to almost all other investments, its broad strokes and not thought through, no offense to anyone here.

Depends on your definition of utility...BTC bracelet?

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by Roswell

Depends on your definition of utility...BTC bracelet?

I guess I don't consider jewelry as "utility" as this discussion is in regard to the need for mining gold as a justification of the energy and emissions cost. Taking the context into the equation one would be hard pressed to argue the jewelry portion is utility without being intentionally misleading. But you do you.