COVID-19 after the vaccine

[red-beard]

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html

Public health recommendations for vaccinated persons
While mRNA COVID-19 vaccines have demonstrated high efficacy at preventing severe and symptomatic COVID-19, there is currently limited information on how much the vaccines might reduce transmission and how long protection lasts. In addition, the efficacy of the vaccines against emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants is not known. At this time, vaccinated persons should continue to follow current guidance to protect themselves and others, including wearing a mask, staying at least 6 feet away from others, avoiding crowds, avoiding poorly ventilated spaces, covering coughs and sneezes, washing hands often, following CDC travel guidance, and following any applicable workplace or school guidance, including guidance related to personal protective equipment use or SARS-CoV-2 testing.

However, vaccinated persons with an exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19 are not required to quarantine if they meet all of the following criteria†:

Are fully vaccinated (i.e., ≥2 weeks following receipt of the second dose in a 2-dose series, or ≥2 weeks following receipt of one dose of a single-dose vaccine)
Are within 3 months following receipt of the last dose in the series
Have remained asymptomatic since the current COVID-19 exposure
Persons who do not meet all 3 of the above criteria should continue to follow current quarantine guidance after exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19.

Although the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission from vaccinated persons to others is still uncertain, vaccination has been demonstrated to prevent symptomatic COVID-19; symptomatic and pre-symptomatic transmission is thought to have a greater role in transmission than purely asymptomatic transmission. Additionally, individual and societal benefits of avoiding unnecessary quarantine may outweigh the potential but unknown risk of transmission, and facilitate the direction of public health resources to persons at highest risk for transmitting SARS-CoV-2 to others. This recommendation to waive quarantine for people with vaccine-derived immunity aligns with quarantine recommendations for those with natural immunity, which eases implementation.

Fully vaccinated persons who do not quarantine should still watch for symptoms of COVID-19 for 14 days following an exposure. If they experience symptoms, they should be clinically evaluated for COVID-19, including SARS-CoV-2 testing, if indicated. In addition, vaccinated persons should continue to follow current guidance to protect themselves and others, including all other SARS-CoV-2 testing recommendations and requirements, and state, territorial, tribal, and local travel recommendations or requirements. For additional considerations regarding quarantine or work restrictions for fully vaccinated healthcare personnel, patients, or residents in healthcare settings, please see section below.

These quarantine recommendations for vaccinated persons, including the criteria for timing since receipt of the last dose in the vaccination series, will be updated when more data become available and additional COVID-19 vaccines are authorized.

† CDC has not systematically evaluated the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines from manufacturers that have not sought an EUA in the United States. For the purposes of these quarantine criteria, considerations for accepting a vaccination series that is not FDA-authorized include whether the vaccine product has received emergency approval from the World Health Organization or authorization from a national regulatory agency.

Vaccinated healthcare personnel, patients, and residents in healthcare settings

These criteria could also be applied when considering work restrictions for fully vaccinated healthcare personnel with higher-risk exposures, as a strategy to alleviate staffing shortages. Of note, exposed healthcare personnel would not be required to quarantine outside of work.

As an exception to the above guidance no longer requiring quarantine for fully vaccinated persons, vaccinated inpatients and residents in healthcare settings should continue to quarantine following an exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19; outpatients should be cared for using appropriate Transmission-Based Precautions. This exception is due to the unknown vaccine effectiveness in this population, the higher risk of severe disease and death, and challenges with social distancing in healthcare settings. Although not preferred, healthcare facilities could consider waiving quarantine for vaccinated patients and residents as a strategy to mitigate critical issues (e.g., lack of space, staff, or PPE to safely care for exposed patients or residents) when other options are unsuccessful or unavailable. These decisions could be made in consultation with public health officials and infection control experts.

CDC’s healthcare infection control guidance contains additional considerations regarding the need to protect healthcare personnel, patients, and residents while also alleviating any staffing shortages.

[Noah930]

I think there was an article today about 4 people in Oregon who became infected even after they received both vaccinations (and waited 2 more weeks after the 2nd shot).

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Noah930

I think there was an article today about 4 people in Oregon who became infected even after they received both vaccinations (and waited 2 more weeks after the 2nd shot).

Yes.

The vaccine was 95% effective in trials. None of the 5% died and only a tiny percent of the 5% had more than mild symptoms.

Effectiveness far better than anyone was hoping for.

[dad911]

So the vaccine is good for 2-1/2 months, or 75 days?

Are fully vaccinated (i.e., ≥2 weeks following receipt of the second dose in a 2-dose series, or ≥2 weeks following receipt of one dose of a single-dose vaccine)
Are within 3 months following receipt of the last dose in the series

Will need 5 boosters/year or 360 million x 5 shots for the whole country?

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by dad911

So the vaccine is good for 2-1/2 months, or 75 days

No. The last information I saw was 10% loss of antibodies per year, based on Phase 1 and Phase 2 data. I'm in the Moderna trial and this is why we stay in, to see how long it lasts.

The Moderna and Pfizer both produce 2-4 times the antibodies as a natural COVID-19 infection. @10% loss per year, you will retain 60% of antibodies after 5 years.

BUT, with the changing strains, I expect you'll need a yearly booster, like the flu shot.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by dad911

So the vaccine is good for 2-1/2 months, or 75 days?



Will need 5 boosters/year or 360 million x 5 shots for the whole country?

I don't think anyone knows that, yet. I am guessing here, but that 3 month (or 2.5 month) protection period is probably a worst-case scenario guesstimate.

[dad911]

Thanks for the data guys.

I'm currently in a temporary pessimistic insomnia and weather driven cabin fever funk. Hoping to be fired, but I'm self employed. Wish I could work from home, but my tools don't control themselves.

Tired of conflicting, ever changing info coming from the cdc and other government agencies, combined with the tireless search for a shot for my wife.

How many masks does the CDC suggest I wear tomorrow?

[gchappel]

As we learn more, expect more and more info to change.
A small but significant amount of info I was taught in school, is now “wrong.”
Heck, we used to think cigarette smoking was good for us.
We are only one year into our relationship with covid 19, there may still be fireworks. It does not mean anyone screwed up, life sucks sometimes.
Gary

[red-beard]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-people-oregon-who-received-both-doses-vaccine-test-positive-n1257886

This is a very poor article, designed to inflame but not inform.

There are two issues:
1) What happens if you are exposed to a virus, if you have had the vaccine?
2) How does the PCR vaccine work?

If you are exposed to the virus, you "take in" the virus. The difference if you've had the vaccine, your body has the tools to shut it down, and shut it down hard. And this is true for any virus/vaccine.

Testing is an issue. The PCR test is extremely sensitive. It magnifies the virus and virus fragments. It is a "yes/no", qualitative test, not a quantitative test. It can show exposure. It continue to show positive well after someone is "over" COVID-19. This is why the CDC guidelines for quarantine do not say to wait until you are clean on the PCR tests. Instead you have to be free of symptoms and 10 days past exposure or positive test.

This is also why the CDC guidelines are different for people who have had the vaccine. See the first post. The practical issue is that someone who has had the vaccine can test positive to COVID-19 on a PCR test. But they are not going to get symptoms, (or very mild ones) and they are not going to be able to transmit the virus.

[cabmandone]

The "breakthrough" cases don't strike me as alarming or surprising. Look at the number of people who get the same flu bug they were vaccinated against. As long as it reduces the infection to something less than life threatening for at risk folks, it's still a win. I think some folks have in their head that being vaccinated = being immune.

[gsxrken]

And isn’t the fact that someone who had covid and recovered an indicator that they’re one of the vast majority of people whose bodies can effectively fight the virus?
I had a very mild case thankfully... only got tested when I discovered I couldn’t taste anything. I assume I have some antibodies for now, and I assume months from now I won’t. Is there any data yet that suggests that one can expect a repeat of their prior experience?

[Sunroof]

My wife and I both received our second Pfizer vaccination in Georgia (we are in the over 65 age group and the shots were readily available). It has been two weeks now and we are driving down to see our grandson in Florida. I have read the reports about the risks coupled with the news that a good number of Floridians are not wearing masks and/or social distancing. We both will continue with wearing our N95's, avoiding indoor dining and taking every precaution as before we got vaccinated. When the trends start coming down from the greater population getting vaccinated and it appears we are in safer environments, then and ONLY will we consider flying, indoor dining, and larger family gatherings, etc.
I lost a parent to Covid, my son in law (38) was on a respirator for several weeks with Covid and I have had friends impacted by Covid. When it hits this close to home, regardless of the vaccinations, for me the risks still remain high.................

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by gsxrken

And isn’t the fact that someone who had covid and recovered an indicator that they’re one of the vast majority of people whose bodies can effectively fight the virus?
I had a very mild case thankfully... only got tested when I discovered I couldn’t taste anything. I assume I have some antibodies for now, and I assume months from now I won’t. Is there any data yet that suggests that one can expect a repeat of their prior experience?

The data from the phase 1 & 2 studies on the vaccine seem to indicate you lose about 10% per year. But if the virus mutates, you may not have protection from that strain.

If you get exposed again, and do develop COVID-19, it SHOULD be a milder case. YMMV.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Sunroof

My wife and I both received our second Pfizer vaccination in Georgia (we are in the over 65 age group and the shots were readily available). It has been two weeks now and we are driving down to see our grandson in Florida. I have read the reports about the risks coupled with the news that a good number of Floridians are not wearing masks and/or social distancing. We both will continue with wearing our N95's, avoiding indoor dining and taking every precaution as before we got vaccinated. When the trends start coming down from the greater population getting vaccinated and it appears we are in safer environments, then and ONLY will we consider flying, indoor dining, and larger family gatherings, etc.
I lost a parent to Covid, my son in law (38) was on a respirator for several weeks with Covid and I have had friends impacted by Covid. When it hits this close to home, regardless of the vaccinations, for me the risks still remain high.................

Well, with the fact that there are potential mutations around, it makes sense to keep protecting yourself. But right now, the Moderna and Pfizer appear to work against the UK and S.A. variants.

The good news for you, is after vaccination it is not likely to get COVID and if you do, it will be mild to nearly asymptomatic. And the UK study shows no transmission from the vaccinated.