The road where Tiger crashed is defective! (my opinion - you be the judge)...

[look 171]

I have both driven and ridden my bike over that many times and don't see anything defected about it? I don't know too much about the accident, but it maybe that he was not paying attention and miss judged that curb?

[TimBer]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

(have they looked at his phone records yet?).

Not without a warrant and I doubt they have probable cause to get one.
They could ask him for permission, but with all the drugs the doctors probably have him on, no way he is competent to consent.

[p911dad]

This looks like a typical urban boulevard design. However, almost all highway design has constraints, often the ROW is narrow or not regular and the design follows. I notice how close the utility poles are to the right curb. Normally these are set back from the edge. It is odd that the left hand lane narrows while there appears to be plenty of room to the right side, maybe a striping error. The issue I see is the curb section on the median side. These are often used to define the edges or direct drainage. More modern design would have mountable curbs so a motorist wouldn't catch a wheel on the high curb and at speed this can be quite dangerous to a driver not paying attention. So if you wander over a bit and hit the curb where it transitions to a narrower lane you might not be able to save it, or overcorrect and really crash. That being said, I feel bad for the Tiger and hope he makes a speedy recovery. It looks like the SUV took a major hit (or hits) and he survived what not long ago would have been likely been not survivable.

[rusnak]

They could use a reflector post thigey at the nose of the median, but from the distance between the impact with the median and the final position of the vehicle, I'd say he was doing way over 45 mph. So the city guys are safe. The issue is whether it's safe at the posted speed limit, not at "any" speed that you may choose.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by look 171

I have both driven and ridden my bike over that many times and don't see anything defected about it?

I agree with Wayne in that that it probably doesn't follow any standardized format/layout for common road signage and markings.
Road engineering is highly specialized. They had one job to do. An unmarked turn-around to nowhere? wtf.
And a hundred other eyeballs saw the same thing.
That open space, or whatever that thing is, should have had lines and arrows at the minimum.
Self-driving cars and lane-assist would have done the exact same thing.

It's like an open manhole on the sidewalk. Or a launch off a bridge which is missing a lane. Claim the driver was going too fast or not paying attention but really an existing hazard was left behind by those trained and paid to do exactly that and responsible for the results. I imagine that in full rush hour traffic there have been many near misses in the past.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by rusnak

They could use a reflector post thigey at the nose of the median, but from the distance between the impact with the median and the final position of the vehicle, I'd say he was doing way over 45 mph. So the city guys are safe. The issue is whether it's safe at the posted speed limit, not at "any" speed that you may choose.

There's normally no one on that road but local res. going over the hump. Its fast, with slight curves going over the hill. People often speed there without noticing it. Like I said, I have not read or kept up with this. Judging from Wayne's photos, and knowing exactly where the section of the road is, I am a strong believer that he may have been speeding?

[rusnak]

^ Yes. Let's say you take any residential street X.X times over the posted speed limit. It sort of negates the pointy finger claim that the road is to blame....

[rusnak]

Do you speed up A) at night, B) in bad weather, C) in heavy traffic ?

Or do you do all three? Or none of the above? You have a steering wheel and brake pedal, just pointing that out.

[GH85Carrera]

They can and likely have downloaded the car computer information. It records the speed and brakes and steering angles. We will never get to hear about the info however. It will just be forgotten.

[john70t]

I deleted my post because it was just being argumentative and the topics had been covered already. srry rus

But irregardless (yeah I said the word) of driver speed: the idea that the design is highly non-standardized, a little bizarre, in the wrong place, and an existing hazard still is somewhat valid I think.

[908/930]

Not sure what the posted speed is but, even if he was still should have been able to stay on the road. When younger I would look at posted speed for a turn double it and then do it in MPH, was always able to make the turn. With modern cars the posted speed is pretty safe. There is the possibility that there was an animal on the road that he avoided and just lost control. Pretty sure there is some pro race car drivers that would swap driving lessons for driving lessons with him.

[911 Rod]

Maybe he chipped when he should have putted?

[Scott Douglas]

Originally Posted by TimBer

Not without a warrant and I doubt they have probable cause to get one.
They could ask him for permission, but with all the drugs the doctors probably have him on, no way he is competent to consent.

I understand about the probable cause, but don't you think they have more than enough probable cause just based on the fact he crashed?
I would hope they do it based on that fact, especially if they're going to go spend tax payer money on a study of the road to find out if it's safe. It's probably one of the best maintained roads in southern California based on the demographics of where it's located. People living in that area aren't the types to put up with crappy roads.

My bet is now on him having been speeding, coming up on a slower car and loosing it during a lane change to pass said car. And more than likely he was on the phone trying to talk to the people he was going to meet at the film shoot.
I also find it interesting that he doesn't remember the accident now but was lucid when it happened.
My wife would call it selective amnesia if it were me claiming such.

[rusnak]

^ From Wayne's post the speed limit is 45 mph. I think it's probably a safe bet that he was going a bit faster than that.

It also looks like the road was recently re-paved. That may be why the lane markers are not painted, but I don't know. They should have painted the curb at the nose of the median in yellow and it should be delineated with a reflective post.

BTW, I love the wall murals. So funny!

[gregpark]

That's 3 well publicized Tiger/motor vehicle bad incidents. That's it, he's not driving any of my cars

[Scott Douglas]

Originally Posted by rusnak

It also looks like the road was recently re-paved. That may be why the lane markers are not painted, but I don't know. They should have painted the curb at the nose of the median in yellow and it should be delineated with a reflective post.

That difference in the pavement 'color' shows the delineation between RHE and RPV.
It looks like there is yellow paint, or was, on the nose of the median as well as a yellow line on the inner side of the left lane.
Neither of those municipalities would put up with a reflective post. It would ruin the 'country atmosphere' they try for up in that neck of the woods.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by gregpark

That's 3 well publicized Tiger/motor vehicle bad incidents. That's it, he's not driving any of my cars

ROFLMAO
If I'd been drinking coffee, I'd have probably just sprayed it all over my keyboard and/or monitor.

[G50]

If your theory is correct, and he was going anywhere near 45 mph or less, it seems like he would have ended up maybe as far as the blue circle. Not way down where he ended up in the red

[sugarwood]

Wayne,

You will enjoy this podcast about the Toyota "runaway accelerator" lawsuits from 2009. This is tragic but black box deemed it was 100% operator error. The reason why will surprise you, but may be related to Tiger driving an unfamiliar rental car, not the road. Most of these cases were rental cars. Guy thinks he's pressing the brake, but he's stomping the gas, and never realizes all he needed to do was lift.

Revisionist History Podcast

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Who the fk cares?