Do Not Litter!!

[stevej37]

^^^ He should have...it has been running on our news constantly.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

And if you don't run, they'll mess with you until you've had enough and fight back.
The cops lit them up and the driver pulled over and stopped. He complied.
If the cop had simply given him a ticket for the infraction and moved on there would have been no problem.
But the cop escalated the situation by claiming he saw someone put something under a seat. Even if the guy actually did put something under the seat, there is nothing illegal about that.

These cops knew they were going to mess with these guys the minute the lit them up. It was profiling and harassment, plain and simple.

If you reach for anything during a traffic stop, it will likely be considered a furtive move and escalate or prolong the stop. It also gives the cop RAS to ask the occupants out of the car, which then starts the Terry Frisk chain of events. It's perfectly legal to investigate a furtive move during a traffic stop and these thugs not only gave the cops every justification for it, I'd say finding four guns on them pretty much vindicates their quite reasonable, articulable suspicion. Once the driver tried to run, that shut down any further argument that these "good citizens" were just being harassed by racist cops. These were bad guys up to bad things and they gave the cops all kinds of red flags for the stop, further investigation and arrest. People who commit big crimes usually ignore the small laws too and that's often how cops get to them.

[stevej37]

^^^ Who doesn't 'carry' nowadays?

[ramonesfreak]

too much info missing from that video to say for 100% sure but doesnt appear to be a legal seizure of the guns. A cop thinking he saw someone put something under the seat when the basis for the stop was a rib or chicken wing bone tossed out the window isnt going to stick....and trying to escape custody probably isnt going to be good PC either, nowdays

and whats with the face punching? 3 guys coulnt arrest that kid without the punches?

[ramonesfreak]

Terry stop is the bread and butter...

https://www.police1.com/patrol-issues/articles/why-the-terry-stop-is-still-a-life-saving-tool-m5hvHMkwDmCPqeec/

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

Terry stop is the bread and butter...

https://www.police1.com/patrol-issues/articles/why-the-terry-stop-is-still-a-life-saving-tool-m5hvHMkwDmCPqeec/

Ironically, if the driver was carrying legally, told the cop he had a gun (and maybe a permit, if required in MI), and if the cop disarmed him, the cop would likely have had no further reason for a Terry frisk. If I tell a cop I have a gun and a permit, and he either doesn't care or he temporarily disarms me, he doesn't have much reasonable suspicion left that I may be armed and a threat to him. I guess really smart bad guys carry an extra gun to let the cop take and put him at ease, while holding onto a secondary gun. But I think that's pretty rare. Last time I got pulled over and had a gun in my cup holder, I told the cop. He asked if it was holstered. I said yes, he thanked me for telling him and continued on with the ticket writing, couldn't have cared less about the gun. Bad guys tend to not use holsters and that gets cops' attention.

[stevej37]

^^^ Is that reason for the cop to pummel his face while being held down by two other cops?

All for a chicken bone.

[thor66]

Originally Posted by stealthn

They were profiled

4 police officers for littering, come on

depends on the type of bone they tossed out

[Tobra]

So they pulled them over for littering, the driver knew he was going to prison for all the guns in the car, so he tried to escape, resisted arrest as much as possible, and they recovered 4 handguns once they got him in custody.

I guess it would have been better if they just let them go. No doubt those young man would never have thought of doing anything untoward with a gun.

Friend of mine used to always say never do more than one illegal thing at a time. If you are driving around with contraband in the vehicle, do not speed or throw litter out the window, for example.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by stevej37

^^^ Is that reason for the cop to pummel his face while being held down by two other cops?

All for a chicken bone.

What does a chicken bone have to do with this? The video is edited between the driver trying to escape and the cop hitting him. No idea what happened in between. But I'm positive that driver would not have been hit at all, had he not tried to escape or gotten physical with the cops. There was no chance of his getting away once it went hands on. I don't know if he had hit the cop or grabbed on to his balls or Taser or what. But he did something to elicit that response from the cop and it was well after PC had been established.

[stevej37]

^^^
That's what he threw out the window. It was the cops reason for the pull-over.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by stevej37

^^^
That's what he threw out the window. It was the cops reason for the pull-over.

Right. That was the PC for the stop. It had nothing at all to do with what happened later. All that was a result of the driver's subsequent bad behavior.

[svandamme]

clearly he hadn't seen this video
Cause he would have known

Stop immediately
Turn that chit off
be polite
And Stay in the car with your hands on the wheel > unless you want your @ss kicked.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by stealthn

They were profiled

If you were a shop owner who had looked back at years of surveillance video and discovered that 90% of the people who shoplifted from your store wore orange shirts, but only 2% of the people who entered your store actually wore orange shirts, would you be more vigilant when someone in an orange shirt walked in?

Profiling is certainly not an exact - or sometimes even fair - science, but it's done every day, and for good reason.

_

[stevej37]

This video shows more....

[Rick Lee]

That video still does not show what the driver did prior to getting punched. But you can hear the other cop say, "Stop grabbing at him" and the driver did still have one arm free.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Norm K

If you were a shop owner who had looked back at years of surveillance video and discovered that 90% of the people who shoplifted from your store wore orange shirts, but only 2% of the people who entered your store actually wore orange shirts, would you be more vigilant when someone in an orange shirt walked in?

Profiling is certainly not an exact - or sometimes even fair - science, but it's done every day, and for good reason.

_

its also illegal

cant have it both ways

so, your saying its ok for cops to break the law in order to stop others (who have a constitutional presumption of innocence) from breaking the law?

Nope. not in this country. Maybe ok in China or Iran but not here

Ive been handcuffed 1 time by a cop that was a good 10 years younger than me and gave me attitude and tossed me into the back of the car. If given the chance at that moment, i would have bashed his brains in by any means possible. So, to me, its no wonder these kids struggle. Your instinct at that moment is to fight or flee. And its no wonder the cops fight back like this because they are scared for their lives too....its no wonder these situations end up bad

of course as an old man now, i know better than to be anything other than peaceful and polite to a cop. Even better, I give them no reason at all to be a part of my life

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

its also illegal

What law bans shop owners from paying extra close attention to whichever demographic they know is responsible for most of the shoplifting? It's perfectly legal. And why is it not illegal for cops to stop a total white bread motorist in a 100% black, drug-infested neighborhood at night? Sure, they need RAS or PC for the stop, but they always, always find it. Not illegal at all. Profiling is perfectly legal and legitimate. No one is paying extra attention to a demographic that has just about no chance of committing certain crimes. You think old ladies coming off a plane from Europe get much scrutiny from US Customs? Why not?

[stevej37]

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2021/04/its-very-very-disturbing-community-leaders-call-for-discipline-after-police-officer-punches-man-7-times.html

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

What law bans shop owners from paying extra close attention to whichever demographic they know is responsible for most of the shoplifting? It's perfectly legal. And why is it not illegal for cops to stop a total white bread motorist in a 100% black, drug-infested neighborhood at night? Sure, they need RAS or PC for the stop, but they always, always find it. Not illegal at all. Profiling is perfectly legal and legitimate. No one is paying extra attention to a demographic that has just about no chance of committing certain crimes. You think old ladies coming off a plane from Europe get much scrutiny from US Customs? Why not?

I believe Norm was making an analogy and there is certainly nothing illegal about profiling people shopping who wear orange shirts

"profiling" might be legal and legitimate. But I though we were talking about "racial profiling." Racial profiling by police is absolutely 100% illegal and violates the constitution, with very few exceptions. Of course proving this and/or preventing this is mostly impossible