Question on GFI Outlet in the Kitchen

[Tidybuoy]

Kitchen Remodel:

I understand that the GFI Outlet needs to be the first one in the series of outlets but what if the circuit also controls the overhead lights in the kitchen? I'm guessing that the outlets are GFI protected and the lights are not - does that matter? I'm replacing the wiring as I have the plaster removed and now is the time to make any changes.

All advice is appreciated.

[1990C4S]

For me, I would take the power for the lights prior to the GFI, then put all the receptacles downstream. I would only protect the receptacles.

But someone with local code knowledge should answer this.

[rwest]

Check your code to make sure you can have the lights on the same circuit as outlets. It has been a few years since I wired mine and I think the lights needed their own circuit and I had to have two circuits for outlets. I was allowed to have the lights on the same circuit as other room’s lights though if memory serves.

To do it your way, you would go from circuit breaker to light before running the hot to the GFCI outlet and then connect the other out lets from the GCFI outlet.

[masraum]

I'd echo what the guys say above.

Are you worried about code, or just protecting yourself and your family? Our old home was built in '67. I suspect most of the house was not compliant with current code. If I needed to make changes, I tried to improve things, but I didn't necessarily shoot for full compliance with current code. That can turn into a long winding rabbit hole.

I'd only put the outlets on the GFCI, so the lights would have to come first. Although it does seem odd that there are lights on the same circuit as outlets. I don't think our house had anything like that.

[Tidybuoy]

I'd like to be as close to code as possible but my house is 72 years old so not everything can be accomplished (easily). That said, I added 4 new circuits to my fuse box and ran to 4 junction boxes in the attic. Now that I am re-doing the kitchen and have most of the walls in a bare state, I am putting in new outlets, adding some, and will convert to GFI. I'm changing the lighting to can lights and adding 3-way switches on some. It's fairly easy for me to put all the outlets on a single circuit of their own and actually will be two circuits for ease of wiring. I wasn't sure if I should keep the lighting blended with the outlets but can change pretty easily to their own circuit.

The lighting is the hardest because some walls are remaining intact and it's not easy to fish wires to switches in my walls. It seems like every wall has multiple fire breaks or diagonal structure supports that you have to go thru - not to mention that everything is stapled. I'm upgrading what I can and leaving as-is what I can't.

[masraum]

Sounds like a pain, but it'll be nice to have the improvements.

I had a buddy that had water issues years ago when Harvey hit. He decided to pull down his drywall and replace it. Somehow, someone got wind of what he was doing and they decided that his old house that was stripped to studs then HAD to be rewired to match current code. All electrical, smoke detectors, etc....

[Arizona_928]

The gfi outlet just keeps you from toater bath....

[URY914]

I'd wire the lights independent of the outlets. If the toaster pops the GFI I don't want to be in the dark. (anymore than I usually am).

[Tidybuoy]

Thanks all! I'm got my plan....

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy

I'd like to be as close to code as possible but my house is 72 years old so not everything can be accomplished (easily). That said,......

By National Electric Code, kitchens are supposed to have 2 -20 Amp GFI circuits feeding the countertop receptacles. That's 12 gauge wire. Spacing is 4' or less, and less than 2' from each end of the counter. So a 4' counter needs at least 1 centered receptacle, a 5' counter would need 2 receptacles spaced less than 4' apart. In theory, an appliance with a 24" cord should not need an extension.

NEC 210.52 https://up.codes/viewer/new_jersey/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/2/wiring-and-protection#210

[Zeke]

Put the lights on any lighting circuit but not the kitchen circuits (you need at least 5 to come close to modern code). Everything in the kitchen and laundry has to be GFCI. Lighting, no, but AFCI nowadays (I doubt you'll do that but I did in my 1930 Spanish Revival.

As stated you don't want to be in the dark while looking for the tripped GFCI. 2 circuits will provide enough amps for the average 1500 sq ft home lighting. The baths are an exception. Wall power is at a premium these days as opposed to 72 years ago. You need more receptacles than what the minimum is in the code.

For instance, I put 2-gang duplex recp's on the master bed wall behind the bed and across the room for TV, ect. I have 2-gang on the kitchen counter as well instead of a single duplex every 4' as required (and on any wall measuring more than 24" so that no point on the countertop is more than 24 inches away from a receptacle).

[Zeke]

Correction: the minimum wall length over a countertop is 12". And recep's can't be more than 24" away from the sink. The wall behind the sink (even if a window) is counted in the 4 foot req'ment.

Islands and the ends on peninsulas must have an outlet on the upper side of the cabinet.

[carambola]

In my opinion, you are going to want at least eight circuits for your kitchen.
Countertop
Countertop
Oven
Microwave
Dishwasher
Garbage Disposal
Refrigerator
Lights

[look 171]

Separate the lights and outlets if possible even if you have to tear apart some of the walls. That's something I will not let go. An other easy way is to have a dedicated circuit for everything that has a motor or heating element connected to it, like a hot water dispenser. Then two circuit for the plugs. That's code around here and it should be up where you are too. All must be GFCI but the ref and dishwasher. Some young bone head will what that too but its impossible to get at them once they trip behind there.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Correction: the minimum wall length over a countertop is 12". And recep's can't be more than 24" away from the sink. The wall behind the sink (even if a window) is counted in the 4 foot req'ment.

Repeat please? I don't understand any of that.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by carambola

In my opinion, you are going to want at least eight circuits for your kitchen.
Countertop
Countertop
Oven
Microwave
Dishwasher
Garbage Disposal
Refrigerator
Lights

I can't do that exactly but getting close (I'm out of slots on the fuse box). I did separate the lights from the outlets and each countertop has a separate circuit. The oven is on it's own as it is 220, the microwave has it's own circuit as it is built into the center island. The dishwasher, garbage disposal are shared with one countertop. The refrigerator is shared with the other countertop.

[carambola]

not horrible, but not code.
certain panels accept mini breakers

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy

I can't do that exactly but getting close (I'm out of slots on the fuse box). I did separate the lights from the outlets and each countertop has a separate circuit. The oven is on it's own as it is 220, the microwave has it's own circuit as it is built into the center island. The dishwasher, garbage disposal are shared with one countertop. The refrigerator is shared with the other countertop.

I am not suppose to say this but I think you will be fine. If ref and toaster came on at the same time, you maybe pulling some amperage but I still think you should be in good shape. Now, code is another story. DW and Garbage disposal doesn't draw that much and chances of them coming on at the same time are rare.