Mechanic Shop Conundrum

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by HobieMarty

Well that is what I was thinking, timing issue. That shop said it was knocking.

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Valve train tick, maybe some sort of cam problem.

rjp

[pete3799]

Sounds like it jumped time. New motor it is.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Help me with my diagnostic knowledge.

1-check compression/check timing
2-assuming a worst case scenario, pricing new head $ vs. rebuilding head $ vs. new engine $ pricing?

Is this reasonable? and could this explain the 1st shop wanting to buy it. Perhaps they've got a good head guy.

[Cdnone1]

I'm not sure where the problem is. They gave you a price they wanted to replace the engine. Their shop, their price. You are free to employ them or not. When you say you are not going to fix the car they say they may be interested in purchasing it? So they might offer you money for a car you say you're not going to fix? It doesn't say you are going to get other quotes or bids just that you are not going to fix it. Which to me means you now need to get rid of it.
I'm not sure how this makes them bad guys.

[HobieMarty]

Well, I can confirm that it is knocking. When I drove it up to load it onto the trailer you could definitely hear a lower knock along with the ticking sounds. My friend said it sounded like a lifter tapping really bad and that it was definitely knocking, there was also a heavy oil smell. So, yep, it will get a replacement engine after all.
So I guess it must've jumped time or something broke in the valve train?
Anyway the dang shop that looked at it left the engine cover off so, if the replacement engine doesn't have one I will need to get mine back from them.
On it's way to my coworker friend's shop which is probably where it should've gone all along.
On a side note, his car hauler trailer was pretty cool, it tilted, no ramps needed, just drive the vehicle right up onto it.

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[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by Cdnone1

I'm not sure where the problem is. They gave you a price they wanted to replace the engine. Their shop, their price. You are free to employ them or not. When you say you are not going to fix the car they say they may be interested in purchasing it? So they might offer you money for a car you say you're not going to fix? It doesn't say you are going to get other quotes or bids just that you are not going to fix it. Which to me means you now need to get rid of it.

I'm not sure how this makes them bad guys.

Never said they were bad guys. They were actually nice people. Just never had a shop want to buy a vehicle in that manner before.

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[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

Help me with my diagnostic knowledge.

1-check compression/check timing
2-assuming a worst case scenario, pricing new head $ vs. rebuilding head $ vs. new engine $ pricing?

Is this reasonable? and could this explain the 1st shop wanting to buy it. Perhaps they've got a good head guy.

Not sure what all they did, the man that called me about it said the technician that looked at it was not there at the time. I asked what made them think it needed an engine replacement and he said the technician said it was knocking. He also said there was not a machine shop in our town anymore and that it would actually cost more to rebuild it. The engine they found had 115,000 miles on it and for the $$$ they were charging, they could do better, that's all.
Anyway, it's all good now, or will be in about a week or so, hopefully.

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[Cdnone1]

It is fairly common if they think they can make money off it when you don't want it

[Baz]

When I had my Italian delivery '73 911T, I drove it hard once on the Interstate to visit a friend in another city.

It suddenly developed a miss.

It was driveable though - just something was "a miss".

I took it over to a guy I know who works on, and restores, Porsches and Austin Healeys. He said it need a top-end rebuild. I said - let's open up the valve covers first and see what's happening.

Turned out it was only a rocker arm that got displaced somehow. An easy fix.

Maybe yours will be an easy fix as well.....good luck, Marty!

[fastfredracing]

I just looked it up . Used engines will come in right at 1500 ish, and labor is a 16 hour job.
Assuming 100 hr, you are at 3100 without any fluids, gaskets, hardware, bolts or incidentals .
I would assume most shops would try to make at least $200 on the motor . and at that age, I would plan on a few hoses, belts, and possibly motor mounts, or maybe even exhaust components . I think that 3 0 still has a timing belt, also, so add that in there while it is out .So, the first estimate seems pretty accurate from where I am sitting .

[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by Baz

When I had my Italian delivery '73 911T, I drove it hard once on the Interstate to visit a friend in another city.

It suddenly developed a miss.

It was driveable though - just something was "a miss".

I took it over to a guy I know who works on, and restores, Porsches and Austin Healeys. He said it need a top-end rebuild. I said - let's open up the valve covers first and see what's happening.

Turned out it was only a rocker arm that got displaced somehow. An easy fix.

Maybe yours will be an easy fix as well.....good luck, Marty!

Thanks, but the way the thing was knocking when we loaded it up onto the trailer, it didn't sound good. It was really strange that when I would rev the engine the ticking would go away, and then you could really hear the knock. When I dropped it off at that shop it didn't sound all that bad. They probably revved it up al lot to diagnose the issue, I don't know? Not blaming that shop, just saying it didn't sound like a knock before but now you can really hear it. The engine had 297,000 miles on it so, it lasted a really long time.

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[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

I just looked it up . Used engines will come in right at 1500 ish, and labor is a 16 hour job.
Assuming 100 hr, you are at 3100 without any fluids, gaskets, hardware, bolts or incidentals .
I would assume most shops would try to make at least $200 on the motor . and at that age, I would plan on a few hoses, belts, and possibly motor mounts, or maybe even exhaust components . I think that 3 0 still has a timing belt, also, so add that in there while it is out .So, the first estimate seems pretty accurate from where I am sitting .

Okay well, my coworker said he could do it for about 2k cheaper so, I guess because he doesn't have a huge building and employees to pay for so...

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[fastfredracing]

I dont have a huge building or employees to pay for either, but my bill would be close to 3500 at the local labor rate and cost of a used engine + parts .
I mean, if he is a weekend warrior , then I could see him doing it cheaper, . If he has a legit retail auto repair shop with rent, insurance, and all the goodies, he I don't see how that is getting done for 2 k.
There was one motor for $600 that had 341,000 miles on it , and a few with noises that were cheap .
I always figure a few extra hours on a motor replacement. .
Best of luck. I love purchasing nice cars with bad motors, but at that mileage., and age, your car would not hold much interest for me .
Always gotta make sure there is enough meat left on the bone to make it worthwhile

[Baz]

I have a REALLY good mechanic.

He has helped me with my Porsches, motorcycles, and my Silverado. He even helped with some chassis work on my landscape trailer!

Works by himself with his son helping.

Stays busy all the time.

Not sure how much longer he will be available but you can best believe I KNOW how fortunate I've been to have such a good guy helping me.

It's the next best thing to living near Fred's business!

[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

I dont have a huge building or employees to pay for either, but my bill would be close to 3500 at the local labor rate and cost of a used engine + parts .
I mean, if he is a weekend warrior , then I could see him doing it cheaper, . If he has a legit retail auto repair shop with rent, insurance, and all the goodies, he I don't see how that is getting done for 2 k.
There was one motor for $600 that had 341,000 miles on it , and a few with noises that were cheap .
I always figure a few extra hours on a motor replacement. .
Best of luck. I love purchasing nice cars with bad motors, but at that mileage., and age, your car would not hold much interest for me .
Always gotta make sure there is enough meat left on the bone to make it worthwhile

His is a legit shop. It is at his house but it is a business. He works on things in his "spare" time when he is not at "work". He actually told me today that if I ever need to use a lift for any reason to just bring my vehicle to his shop and use his lift. I can usually do most things in my driveway at home and I don't mind working on my vehicles.
I've gotten pretty darn good at changing plugs and coils in a V8 SHO or anything that is transverse mounted for that matter.
I just changed the bank 1 cam position senor in our 2006 Nissan Quest, fun job there. Brake jobs and oil changes are easy peasy, and when I work on things, I always try to show my son how to do the job as well. Anyhoo, thanks for all the comments, suggestions, and replies. I will have to update this one or start a new thread when the Lexus gets all sorted out.

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[Cals911]

Used motor plus are you going to re-use the old radiator and hoses? Plugs, heater hoses probably original, water pump, mounts, thermostat, oil an filter, coolant, belts, incidentals can ad up quick, $4100 is cheap

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Cals911

Used motor plus are you going to re-use the old radiator and hoses? Plugs, heater hoses probably original, water pump, mounts, thermostat, oil an filter, coolant, belts, incidentals can ad up quick, $4100 is cheap

Well then $800+ oil and filter is really cheap. That's what I just paid for a low mileage used engine and installation in a small town in MN. It was $275 for the engine w 132k miles on it, (I got to see the smashed vehicle it was in), and $500 for the labor.

The used engine even came with a good PS pump attached, which I was about to replace on the van. Also a 90 day warranty.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Cdnone1

I'm not sure where the problem is. They gave you a price they wanted to replace the engine. Their shop, their price. You are free to employ them or not. When you say you are not going to fix the car they say they may be interested in purchasing it? So they might offer you money for a car you say you're not going to fix? It doesn't say you are going to get other quotes or bids just that you are not going to fix it. Which to me means you now need to get rid of it.
I'm not sure how this makes them bad guys.

Someone's price is just business, they are free to charge what they want and you are free to say no or shop around for a better price. In the auto repair business, there are a lot of predatory shops that will give you a sky-high estimate for a car that needs major repairs and try to buy the car for cheap when you start crying. It's usually extremely unethical.

When I worked at a Porsche dealer many years ago, they had an unwritten policy against trying to buy broken cars from customers. You can imagine some of the repair bills with 911s that had blown engines or even transmissions at the dealer. The customer had to be the one who brought up selling the car as-is and ask whether the shop wanted to buy it, not the other way around. It just wasn't done. We made $$ on repairs.

[speeder]

Oh yeah, go back and get your engine cover TODAY. Don’t let them throw it away.

[fastfredracing]

Originally Posted by speeder

Well then $800+ oil and filter is really cheap. That's what I just paid for a low mileage used engine and installation in a small town in MN. It was $275 for the engine w 132k miles on it, (I got to see the smashed vehicle it was in), and $500 for the labor.

The used engine even came with a good PS pump attached, which I was about to replace on the van. Also a 90 day warranty.

What was that in ? I just bought a 3.2 Acura TL motor for $350. ran like a swiss watch , labor on that job would have been about 900 + a timing belt, water pump , coolant, oil, filter, and psf . I did , have to spend a few hours removing all the rusted to nothing exhaust bolts .
Probably would have penned out to about 1500 all said and done .
I miss the good old days when we would in and out motors in the same day .