Mechanic Shop Conundrum

HobieMarty · 07-25-2021, 07:55 AM

So, about two years ago my Dad gave me a 2000 Lexus RX300 and I have been using it as my daily driver for over a year now, that is up until a couple of weeks ago. I left for work one day and the engine had a rattle and was misfiring and just didn't have any power so I took it back home and parked it, had only gone about a mile. Towed the vehicle to a shop last week and they took a look at it and said it needed an engine replacement and would be around $4100.00 to fix it. Wow, this vehicle isn't worth that much money and the shop told me that they may be interested in buying the vehicle as I told them I wasn't going to fix it. So, red flag goes up, shop wants to buy my Lexus if I don't want to fix it, I figure they would throw an engine in there for way less money than what they quoted me and flip the vehicle for a nice profit.
I have a coworker that has a shop and works on vehicles and he told me he could do the job and quoted me a price about 2k under what the other shop said. At this price, the vehicle is worth fixing so, we've made arrangements for him to pick up the Lexus and take it to his shop for assessment and go from there.
So, what do you guys think about a shop quoting a super high price and then offering to purchase a vehicle when the owner states that they would not repair the vehicle? Is this a common practice?

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wswartzwel · 07-25-2021, 08:04 AM

Fairly common around here. Indy shop mechanics try to make a few bucks on the side fixing up cars and selling them. They get the parts cheap and they are out the labor.

Zeke · 07-25-2021, 08:12 AM

Or they buy a used engine which they don't have to warranty because technically they didn't do any engine work. If they are not a licensed dealer, they don't even have to stand behind the whole car. In CA all use cars sold by dealers must be warrantied for 30 days.

HobieMarty · 07-25-2021, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

Or they buy a used engine which they don't have to warranty because technically they didn't do any engine work. If they are not a licensed dealer, they don't even have to stand behind the whole car. In CA all use cars sold by dealers must be warrantied for 30 days.

When I first talked to them after the diagnosis they did, at the cost of 80 bucks, they had located an engine and could have it in 2 or 3 days and it had 115,000 miles on it and that engine was over $1800.00. Nope, not gonna do it. There are engines out there for less money and have less miles on them.
I don't have a problem with people wanting to make a buck but geez the price they quoted me was more than what the vehicle is worth so, it seems like a shop playing a game of, quote the customer a price more than the value of the vehicle and if they don't bite, then offer to buy the vehicle from them and see if they bite.
I get it, the car in question would already be at their shop and although running, not able to be driven. Customer doesn't want the hassle of moving the car and finding a second opinion so the customer would more than likely go ahead and sell the vehicle to the shop.
This is an extra vehicle that we have so, I'm not in a position where I have to have it fixed immediately, I have another vehicle that was my daily before I started using the Lexus as my daily so I consider myself fortunate in that respect.

Anyhoo, thanks y'all for the replies.

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masraum · 07-25-2021, 10:34 AM

Yep, I'd agree with your assessment and the red flags.

Unfortunately, my take is that you're better off assuming every shop is out to screw you. They aren't all out to screw you, but whether it's malfeasance or incompetence you end up with the same result by a bunch of them. I've saved folks from being screwed (intentionally) by shops. I've heard the stories after the fact. I've personally been affected by incompetence and possibly intentional malfeasance myself.

RANDY P · RANDY P's Garage

Just started one day for no reason? I've seen engines that have misfires and sounded like something mechanical going bad (rod knock) then the noise goes away after the misfire fixed.

I would look for a shop that specializes in importing low miles japanese engines and swapping them. Brother did that with his Subaru, and it wasn't a bad deal.

Despite the hassle, $4.1K might not be a bad deal to swap considering what else could you replace it with for that cash- $4.1K for a car that you know it's history isn't a bad deal. If it's not in too horrible condition otherwise why not just do it?

rjp

dad911 · 07-25-2021, 10:39 AM

I've sold 2 cars to repair shops. Both had rear main seals that leaked.

masraum · 07-25-2021, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HobieMarty

I don't have a problem with people wanting to make a buck but geez the price they quoted me was more than what the vehicle is worth so, it seems like a shop playing a game of, quote the customer a price more than the value of the vehicle and if they don't bite, then offer to buy the vehicle from them and see if they bite.

At the same time, I think it's entirely possible that for an older vehicle the cost of the vehicle and the fair cost of a repair may be out of whack.

If you've got a vehicle like a Lexus that's in really good shape, but is older, I can see the bluebook value being low. Then you throw in something like a bad motor, where you have to get the motor (and make some markup on the motor) and then perform a motor swap which is probably a ton of hours in the books, so that the value of a motor replacement is probably higher than the value of the vehicle. So they may not have been padding things, it may have just been how it worked out. Or maybe it should have been a $2500 or $3000 job, and they bumped it up.

pete3799 · pete3799's Garage

How many miles are on the motor? Did they do a compression check?

DavidI · 07-25-2021, 01:23 PM

How do you know the engine needs to be replaced? Did your friend's shop make the same assessment? If so, what is the failure with the engine?

HobieMarty · 07-25-2021, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidI

How do you know the engine needs to be replaced? Did your friend's shop make the same assessment? If so, what is the failure with the engine?

Coworkers shop hasn't looked at it yet. He picks it up in about an hour. To answer a few questions. Yes, it started misfiring and backfiring all of a sudden and the rattle also. I had someone listen to it and they didn't think it was a rod knock because the rattle didn't increase when the rpms increased. When rpms were falling back down, the rattle seemed to go away for a second or two. I went to that shop to pay them for the diagnostic yesterday and got the key. People didn't even have it locked. I cranked it up and it sounded worse after they did whatever to it.
Engine has 297,000 miles on it by the way.
Vehicle body and interior are super nice, no dents, no tears in the seats, it is in really good shape. Anyhoo, coworker friend will get it this evening and diagnose it. If it needs an engine, the cost will still be 2k less than what the other shop said.

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RANDY P · RANDY P's Garage

Rattle is probably caused by something in the timing chain or belt. Other than that did it burn oil or smoke?

rjp

speeder · speeder's Garage

Somewhat timely thread, I just had to pay someone to install a used engine in a car. Mine is a 2007 Chrysler Town and Country minivan that I bought in MN. to leave there for my use when I fly into town. It was also for my brother's and anyone else's use if needed.

It only had ~132k miles when I bought it last summer and ran like new. I left it with a friend, (term used very loosely), and told him that he could drive it occasionally if he needed to haul something, etc. Flew into town on July 4th and he picked me up at airport in it, I could hear a loud knocking sound as he pulled up.

"What's that noise?"

"I dunno, must have just started."

To make a long story long, the van had about 5k additional miles on it and a loud rod knock. As most of us know, this condition is caused by severe oil starvation. It could easily happen on a cold start situation if someone revs the schit out of it immediately. Like if they had to move it on a plow day in Minneapolis in the winter.

I found a goos deal on a low miles used engine in a small town ~50 miles away at a junkyard. I asked whether they might possibly do installs, since I only brought a toothbrush with me for tools. They said no but they knew a guy in town who could do it. I got ahold of him, (Mexican guy with limited English), he said that he could do the swap for $500. I only mention his nationality because I thought that there might be a misunderstanding of what I was asking him to do...his English is a lot better than my Spanish.

He understood perfectly, that was his price. Thank god for small town America in this case. It took a little time for his schedule to open up but he did the job and the van is waiting for me at his shop. I'm a couple thousand miles away but he doesn't mind storing it. I went down to see him and his shop/work, he is more than competent for this job. Engine swaps are not rocket science but there is plenty of opportunity to break/damage stuff, think electrical connections, etc...

So yeah, the price you were quoted is very high. I would do it in steps, IOW, find a good used engine first and then find someone to install it. The install doesn't mean anything if the motor isn't great.

speeder · speeder's Garage

And yeah, that's an automatic conflict of interest when the shop offers to buy your rig after giving you a sky-high estimate. That's a win either way for them.

HobieMarty · 07-25-2021, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANDY P

Rattle is probably caused by something in the timing chain or belt. Other than that did it burn oil or smoke?

rjp

No smoke.

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HobieMarty · 07-25-2021, 03:04 PM

https://youtube.com/shorts/lY2UJaV7vqk?feature=share

This is it.

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RANDY P · RANDY P's Garage

If it was me, if oil consumption was out of line, I'd swap it. If it was in line, fix it.

rjp

HobieMarty · 07-25-2021, 03:05 PM

https://youtube.com/shorts/cST7wFt-pLs?feature=share

Another one of what it is doing.

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HobieMarty · 07-25-2021, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANDY P

If it was me, if oil consumption was out of line, I'd swap it. If it was in line, fix it.

It sounds like you might have jumped timing, FYI.

rjp

Well that is what I was thinking, timing issue. That shop said it was knocking.

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RANDY P · RANDY P's Garage

No oil pressure lights on dash- they gotta isolate the source of the ticking- remove serpentine belt and peek under valve cover.

rjp