Being poor is very expensive.

[wdfifteen]

How does this "final expense" insurance work? It is basically just a few grand in life insurance? Does it pay directly to the final expense providers or go to a beneficiary as a lump sum to do with as they please?

[Rick Lee]

It's straight whole life insurance - premium and benefit never change, you pay until you die, it builds cash value, minimal underwriting, usually maxes out at $25-35k. You can put anyone you want as a beneficiary and that's who gets the payout upon your death. We call it final expense for people between ages 50-80 because they usually want it to take the funeral or other expenses off the shoulders of their kids. But it's just simple whole life in smaller amounts and with a few health questions.

[fintstone]

So...if your kids skip the funeral and have you cremated, they keep the difference.

[fintstone]

Back to being poor being expensive (beyond insurance)...even the photos of the poorest show several old cars, lots useless junk they bought...and almost all are obese (getting plenty of food but not much exercise). All seem to have cell phones, TVs, microwaves, cable, video games, etc...all things my own family did not have until I had a solid career, a home, paid off transportation to work, and a good deal in a rainy day fund. I am not sure we really understand what "poor" means any more.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by fintstone

So...if your kids skip the funeral and have you cremated, they keep the difference.

The beneficiary does whatever they want with the money. It's life insurance, not a burial plan.

[Rusty Heap]

Spices, great analogy and perspective...........can you imagine as an adult having simple Salt for the first time?

[Rick Lee]

The poorest people in America today live better than kings in the old days. Free healthcare, free housing, electricity with A/C, clean water, indoor plumbing, food stamps and a political class and system that favors them over taxpayers. Louis XIV could not imagine the luxury and cleanliness most of our poor enjoy today. Can you imagine when he had to go to the dentist?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

The poorest people in America today live better than kings in the old days. Free healthcare, free housing, electricity with A/C, clean water, indoor plumbing, food stamps and a political class and system that favors them over taxpayers. Louis XIV could not imagine the luxury and cleanliness most of our poor enjoy today. Can you imagine when he had to go to the dentist?

Yes, I often laugh when people tell me they are poor and don't have opportunity...after growing up in an area/era where indoor plumbing and television were rare, no one had A/C, and health and dental care was practically nonexistent. Not being born into the middle class or higher should only make one more "hungry" for achievement and more willing to work hard/sacrifice to reach their goals. Opportunity is everywhere.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yes, I often laugh when people tell me they are poor and don't have opportunity...after growing up in an area/era where indoor plumbing and television were rare, no one had A/C, and health and dental care was practically nonexistent. Not being born into the middle class or higher should only make one more "hungry" for achievement and more willing to work hard/sacrifice to reach their goals. Opportunity is everywhere.

I'm curious, you've talked about growing up poor, and from the sounds of it, poor like I can't really understand.

When I was born, mom was a nurse and dad was a cop. After a bit, Dad went back into the military (enlisted) so we weren't rolling in dough, but we were comfortable. Mom didn't work for many years after dad went into the military, and we started travelling. I think my mom started working again when I was about 15. My parents saved for what they wanted and needed.

When and where did you grow up?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yes, I often laugh when people tell me they are poor and don't have opportunity...after growing up in an area/era where indoor plumbing and television were rare, no one had A/C, and health and dental care was practically nonexistent. Not being born into the middle class or higher should only make one more "hungry" for achievement and more willing to work hard/sacrifice to reach their goals. Opportunity is everywhere.

A lot of that is based on the personality of the person in the situation. To greatly simplify things. If a person grows up in a bad environment (poor, abusive, substance dependencies, etc...) there seems to be 2 or 3 main results.

1 The person perpetuates the environment. They act basically the same, having learned from and emulating how they grew up.
2 The person becomes a victim and can never let go of and get past the issues that they went through.
3 The person sees what is going on and thinks "this is crap, I'm not going to perpetuate this. I'm going to rise above or get out of this and make something better of myself." This is, I believe, the rarest of the three. I've seen it several times, but it's far from common. I believe a big part of it is based on the personality that is intrinsic to the individual.

Congrats for being one of the few #3. Unfortunately, while that's an option for everyone, it's in same ways, probably also not. Not everyone can be an olympian. In a similar way, not everyone has the personality to overcome, but will deal differently.

[Bill Douglas]

A thing I've noticed about poor people around here. they always seem to have the curtains pulled and the lights on during the day. Maybe they feel that they are so interesting that everyone is spying on them.

They never have the doors and windows open to LET SOME FRESH AIR THROUGH THE PLACE.

There always seems to be something being cooked in the kitchen. All day. Steam pouring off it. and not being extracted out of the house. they don't want to lose the nice warm air.

The kids have respiratory problems, and there is mould on the ceilings. Well, it wasn't a problem for the first 75 years in the particular house until the trash people with the above described habits moved in.

Also they don't work so they have all day to clean the mould off the ceiling. and let some air into the house.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by masraum

I'm curious, you've talked about growing up poor, and from the sounds of it, poor like I can't really understand.

When I was born, mom was a nurse and dad was a cop. After a bit, Dad went back into the military (enlisted) so we weren't rolling in dough, but we were comfortable. Mom didn't work for many years after dad went into the military, and we started travelling. I think my mom started working again when I was about 15. My parents saved for what they wanted and needed.

When and where did you grow up?

Rural Appalachian mountains...like what you saw on Walton's Mountain on TV...just much, much poorer than on that show (as poor folks don't own sawmills, a big house, or an entire mountain). Sorta what you would see in the movie Deliverance except poorer and minus the Hollywood version/fantasy of perversion and criminality. Hard working people who went to church on Sunday and worked daylight to dark to eke out an existence growing their own food, cutting their own wood for heat and cooking, etc...as there were no real local jobs.

I am quite familiar with the military lifestyle...it was a way out for me and others. I though I was rich when I got my first military paycheck as a teen...as I made more than both my parents combined.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by masraum

A lot of that is based on the personality of the person in the situation. To greatly simplify things. If a person grows up in a bad environment (poor, abusive, substance dependencies, etc...) there seems to be 2 or 3 main results.

1 The person perpetuates the environment. They act basically the same, having learned from and emulating how they grew up.
2 The person becomes a victim and can never let go of and get past the issues that they went through.
3 The person sees what is going on and thinks "this is crap, I'm not going to perpetuate this. I'm going to rise above or get out of this and make something better of myself." This is, I believe, the rarest of the three. I've seen it several times, but it's far from common. I believe a big part of it is based on the personality that is intrinsic to the individual.

Congrats for being one of the few #3. Unfortunately, while that's an option for everyone, it's in same ways, probably also not. Not everyone can be an olympian. In a similar way, not everyone has the personality to overcome, but will deal differently.

Having been poor (without the velvet glove of low expectations and the quenching of any "hunger" for success/opportunity by receiving income based social welfare) should just make one stronger. More able to delay gratification, live frugally when necessary, and do the hardest physical labor imaginable...for about 20 hours a day. I have never worked anywhere in my life where anyone worked longer and harder than I have. Hard work was/is easy...as I had done that since I was a child. All I needed to do was to learn to work smarter and make better choices. That stared with recognizing that everyone I knew worked very hard and yet were very poor. Libraries are free and if you take a low-level job and bust your butt...you move up. Each new job, you can do the same. The same with college. It is not hard to take one course while working...then two...pretty soon you are going full time...but when you are paying your own hard-earned dollars, you are not foolish enough to take courses that will not result in your getting a better job/more pay. I wanted to write poetry, but took engineering (while I worked 3 jobs to pay for it).

[masraum]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Rural Appalachian mountains...like what you saw on Walton's Mountain on TV...just much, much poorer than on that show (as poor folks don't own sawmills, a big house, or an entire mountain). Sorta what you would see in the movie Deliverance except poorer and minus the Hollywood version/fantasy of perversion and criminality. Hard working people who went to church on Sunday and worked daylight to dark to eke out an existence growing their own food, cutting their own wood for heat and cooking, etc...as there were no real local jobs.

I am quite familiar with the military lifestyle...it was a way out for me and others. I though I was rich when I got my first military paycheck as a teen...as I made more than both my parents combined.

Got it. I've not seen it, but I've read/heard about it. These days it's most often associated with West VA, but I'm sure it is more geographic than that.

[fintstone]

This is what it looked like. https://www.life.com/history/war-on-poverty-appalachia-portraits-1964/

Still...it was not that bad. It was just different. A lot of whining city folks would benefit from a few years of hard work on "the farm."

[gumby]

Kennedy toured the Appalachia and anonymously (out of his own pocket) had new tin roofs put on houses

These good people were poor because of multiple reasons not of their on doings,
a confluence of economics and geography

[LEAKYSEALS951]

I haven't read the whole thread, only tuning in for the last several comments.

I live near Schuyler, Va. (The location of the real Walton/Earl Hammer house) and work on patients there, in the valley and in West Va. With the exception of meth issues, I find the people here great. I live in Nelson, so these are my neighbors as well.

In College, my girlfriend grew up off the Blue Ridge parkway in SW Va. South of Roanoke. She grew up in a cabin her grandfather built, no electricity, and took a shower out of bucket of cold mountain stream water poured at will over her head by pulling on a rope to tip the bucket in an outdoor semi enclosed stall. Imagine that in winter. In grade school, she caught the kitchen on fire, but they were able to put it out, so the cabin wasn't completely lost, but with no insurance, they still had to live in the charred kitchen. Her father drove a school bus and with funds from logging their land, were able to build a modest house further up the hill. Point being, amazing family, but, they had land which helped out. They didn't use public assistance. His car was an aging pinto. Did it matter one bit? No. They were/are a happy family.

Most of the folk I know are doing just fine, and, really, it boils down to attitude. Many don't want the handouts, and are just great as is. As public assistance has increased in our state, so has a squalor of freeloaders, who are not Appalachian Folk at all. There is a huge difference between the two. No comparison.

As for the original title "Being poor is expensive"- I'll enter an example of something I noticed as of late. My favorite American made dress shoe "Allen Edmonds" had a summer sale- It's actually going on now. At $395- $425, the shoe is expensive, but rebuildable. On sale, it is $245, and this weekend is 30% off that- so now about $175. Some models more, some even less. That's a huge discount for American made quality shoes. Now compare that to a cheap dress shoe, say Kohls or something for $120 bucks. It has a sole of pressed cardboard. It is crap. Buy the $120 dollar shoe and get a year or two tops out of it. An AE shoe can give twice the wear easy, and be rebuilt for $125, getting one back up to a $400 shoe.

But here's the best part, since the shoe is so in demand, people will buy used AE shoes on ebay for $100+ dollars easy, so, basically, I can get a pair of $425 shoes for $175 (if I time it right), sell them a year or two later for $100, so my cost of ownership is $75 dollars for a really good American made shoe versus the cheap Kohl's made in some other country shoe at $125.

The example- being so strapped for cash one cannot step up to the better shoe- actually is more expensive in the long run.

There really are items where being able to step up a bit can save money, even if not on sale. Also, this is said with full humble knowledge not everyone can just go plopping down $100's on nice shoes. For that I am grateful. Just a fwiw.

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by masraum

Got it. I've not seen it, but I've read/heard about it. These days it's most often associated with West VA, but I'm sure it is more geographic than that.

We just got back yesterday from a week's vacation in Southern W.V. Traveling some of the tiny stone back roads will open your eyes, and make you feel blessed.

[fintstone]

Where I grew up, people worked hard and were proud that they made it on their own. People were lean and hard, and made their own way. Nobody went hungry...although maybe a bit short on protein. Food was free as someone would always share seeds and help you plow your field (or yard) the first year...but you ate well or poorly based on how much work you put into that garden. We grew just about anything you find in a grocery store to eat in the summer and canned/preserved enough to last all winter. We planned ahead and grew enough staples each summer (like potatoes, beans, and onions) to have enough every day for about a year and a half...just in case this year (or next) there was poor harvest. We also raised enough to feed a cow, a pig or two...and a bunch of chickens. Of course you always shared with the elderly/relatives. Lazy folks that didn't plant enough, care for or harvest/preserve enough usually came up a bit short. They only did that once. Having to buy food from a store with your limited coin sure was tough when it was essentially free (except for your labor) in the fall. Heat for your home was pretty much free as well...depending on how much you swung that axe or pulled that crosscut saw in the summer determined just how warm you would be in winter.

Once they stared passing out food stamps and food commodities, many quit bothering to grow food. Why work hard in the hot sun when food was "free"...and you could buy sweets, cupcakes, processed food, etc? Why cut wood when you could get your heating oil "subsidized?" Before you knew it, many were obese as they quit working their gardens and ate food much higher in calories. Thanks Uncle Sam. What they really needed were jobs.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

The poorest people in America today live better than kings in the old days. Free healthcare, free housing, electricity with A/C, clean water, indoor plumbing, food stamps and a political class and system that favors them over taxpayers. Louis XIV could not imagine the luxury and cleanliness most of our poor enjoy today. Can you imagine when he had to go to the dentist?

Are these the people you make your living off of?