would the big auto makers make money if they went 100% internet selling? - Page 2

MysticLlama · 08-31-2021, 03:20 PM

Yes, about half the Tesla service centers around here have showrooms and demo unit or two of each model to test drive, just not a big back stock of every color, etc.

Also, the only real options are exterior color, interior color, battery size/motor config, and wheels.

Out of curiosity the other day I tried to config cars from a couple other brands to price compare and it was pretty maddening that I could only get feature x with the ugly interior color or y type wheels with some other odd bundled option, etc. It was way harder than it should have been to just figure out what the fully loaded one would cost because it was impossible to get to that point.

I ordered my Model 3 online easily and they delivered it to my house with a couple things to sign when it was ready.

Steve Carlton · 08-31-2021, 03:46 PM

One complaint I have with Tesla (I had a Model 3 single motor Extended Range Plus) is that they contact you when the car is ready and if you don't pick it up within 3 days of the date they give you, they simply say they'll sell it to someone else. This is because their delivery centers are flowing a ton of cars. Tesla is hardly a niche carmaker these days due to the Model 3. They're all over the place here.

I got pissed when they said pick it up by such and such a date and told my "salesperson" (who I never met) that was poor customer service. The sales manager called and offer to deliver the car to me vs me driving an hour away to their delivery center, so I accepted that. The delivery was a pathetic one minute review of a couple of features.

Service-wise I only needed the buttons on one side of the steering wheel replaced when I spilled coffee on it. They sent out a technician to my work location, fixed it in 15 minutes and billed me like $170. I was pleased with that aspect of the 6 month ownership period of the car.

I don't know how good this analogy is, but to me Tesla is like Apple. They march to a different drummer, whether you like it or not.

PorscheGAL · PorscheGAL's Garage

My husband has a model 3. After driving it 1 time on a 2 hr trip, I was sold. I have put in my order for a Model S to replace my Audi RS3.

That said: I love the ease of picking up the car. Show up. Push a few buttons in the app on my phone and away I go. I absolutely hate spending countless hours at a dealership to purchase a car. That is something legacy automakers could learn.

Anyone still think Tesla is some small automaker is not looking at their production numbers. This year they will sell as many cars as Porsche and Mazda and their numbers will only grow in the foreseeable future.

john70t · 08-31-2021, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

The sales manager called and offer to deliver the car to me vs me driving an hour away to their delivery center, so I accepted that. The delivery was a pathetic one minute review of a couple of features.

Gee. How pushy of you. Why would anyone need more explanation?

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

I wouldn't buy a lawnmower except from a local servicing dealer. I can't imagine owning a $50000 car and trying to get service over the internet. Where do Tesla owners go to get a wheel bearing replaced?

Steve Carlton · 08-31-2021, 04:34 PM

We just buy a new one.

Steve Carlton · 08-31-2021, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

My husband has a model 3. After driving it 1 time on a 2 hr trip, I was sold. I have put in my order for a Model S to replace my Audi RS3.

That said: I love the ease of picking up the car. Show up. Push a few buttons in the app on my phone and away I go. I absolutely hate spending countless hours at a dealership to purchase a car. That is something legacy automakers could learn.

Anyone still think Tesla is some small automaker is not looking at their production numbers. This year they will sell as many cars as Porsche and Mazda and their numbers will only grow in the foreseeable future.

The RS3 was a hoot, right? I've never driven one.

No need to spend hours getting a car from a dealer. It can be just as fast. Just requires a deal be agreed to and the same information Tesla requires. A lot of dealers can deliver as well.

MysticLlama · 08-31-2021, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I wouldn't buy a lawnmower except from a local servicing dealer. I can't imagine owning a $50000 car and trying to get service over the internet. Where do Tesla owners go to get a wheel bearing replaced?

I recently had upper control arms replaced. They started squeaking, known issue in the sub-assembly for certain timeframes.

Opened app, clicked service, typed squeak from front end.
Picked a date/time
Took the car in, app knew I showed up for the appointment and checked me in.
Someone ran out a couple minutes later and ran the car around the block.

Verified upper control arms, warranty issue, got them on order, sent me on my way in about 10 min.

Got a notice on the app that the control arms were in, scheduled the appointment.
Dropped the car off and got a loaner.
Decided I wanted them to change to my summer tires too, ran over and dropped those off.
Got a notice on the app it was done, $0 invoice for warranty and mount/balance invoice for tires were in the app, clicked pay with my card on file.
Headed down shortly thereafter and picked up my car.

Have heard stories that sometimes it's a bit bumpier than that if your particular service center isn't on top of it, but this was super easy. If it'd been something smaller, same process, but they'd have sent someone to my house or office to do it. (Things like a busted charge port, lights, buttons, brakes, etc.)

MysticLlama · 08-31-2021, 04:54 PM

Also, that's the only maintenance I've had to do other than swapping tires and a cracked windshield replacement and door latch adjustment while it was there (which was just as easy) in 2.5 years and 21k miles.

My BMW dealership experiences were FAR worse, every single time.

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticLlama

I recently had upper control arms replaced. They started squeaking, known issue in the sub-assembly for certain timeframes.

Opened app, clicked service, typed squeak from front end.
Picked a date/time
Took the car in, )

Took it in where?

MysticLlama · 08-31-2021, 06:46 PM

To the service center about 5 miles away from my house. As opposed to the one 12 miles away or the one 8 miles away.

Yes, if you live in BFE it could be more of a hike, that'll take time. It's more like a BMW or Mercedes spacing than Ford/Toyota. There are rangers that are pretty far flung and will come to you, but service centers are usually around metro areas.

MysticLlama · 09:10 AM

Another interesting thing to pass along about Tesla service centers... They are almost always in abandoned dealership locations, well located warehouse space, etc. Without the need for high visibility, they save a bunch of money wherr possible by being just off the main drag. The Bellevue SC has moved a couple times to spaces that were comparably cheap, they just move the lifts and tools and set up for a year or two instead of spending 10s of millions building showpieces.

mattdavis11 · 09-01-2021, 07:47 AM

^^^ The first Tesla shop I saw in Austin, TX was a window tint shop prior. 1 roll up door. They have upgraded since.

cockerpunk · 09-01-2021, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Please elaborate on the net cost to consumers if all brands followed the Tesla model. Also, where would GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Porsche, et al come up with a system of dealerships to facilitate sales and service?

Are you aware that owners of dealerships invested millions based on a franchise agreement? Perhaps you’re confusing a legal agreement vs a legal mandate?

the data is pretty conclusive. every few years a new study is done that dealers cost consumers between 2 and 5 grand on the purchase price of the car.

dealerships are little to no value added, just another middle man taking consumers money.

Steve Carlton · 09-01-2021, 08:06 AM

Any links to your data?

How would you suggest GM or Ford function, for example, if the dealer network wasn't there? Do you think stocking 100-500 cars is of any value to someone buying a car? Do you think a parts and service department are of any value?

cockerpunk · 09-01-2021, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Any links to your data?

How would you suggest GM or Ford function, for example, if the dealer network wasn't there? Do you think stocking 100-500 cars is of any value to someone buying a car? Do you think a parts and service department are of any value?

parts maybe ... but in the age of the internet, not really. i mean look at mazdamotorsports, with the parts diagram the parts guy has, you can find/buy and ship directly to yourself anything you want. there is no reason why this couldnt be expanded to cover all makes/models.

service, is even more of a racket than selling the cars is. if you are getting your car serviced at the dealer, you are getting ripped off harder than anyone else.

flipper35 · flipper35's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by john70t

Gee. How pushy of you. Why would anyone need more explanation?

I absolutely could not live with that interior. I hate the tacked on iPad look and this is as bad as it gets. Plus, I want to just adjust the stupid vents for the A/C, not have them programmed.

aschen · 09-01-2021, 08:16 AM

well there is an interesting dichotmy tesla is disrupting the dealer model but are real douchbags when it comes to parts availability and right to repair.

The dealers also make a ton of money off shady finance, extended warrantee, vin etching, rust proofing, etc.

I feel like I need a shower after going to one. Used cars are closer to free market and places like carmax and presumably carvana have taken some of the shadyness out of it, though I am sure they will still give you a 9% 70 month loan if you let them.

flatbutt · 09-01-2021, 08:19 AM

I took the Taco on a road trip to Austin two years ago. The mileage was such that I wanted to do an oil change while on the road.I didn't feel like trying to do it in a motel parking lot and no way I'd use a Quikie oil service so I looked for a Toyota center, found 4 or so and brought it in to let them do it. $50 and 30 minutes I was on my way.

OK so Teslas don't need oil changes but my point is that I was able to get gypsy service EZPZ 1500 miles from home.

Otter74 · 09-01-2021, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindbhr

I read that Ford is changing their business model to sell direct to consumers. The logic is that as long as customers are willing to wait, they get exactly what they want and the dealers don't carry inventory. They still pick up their car at a designated dealer. A throw back to the 1960 and '70s I'm told. Dealers are a little nervous because unless other manufactures follow, they may lose sales to other brands with inventory on the lot. IIRC, Ford wanted 35-40% of their future sales under this model.

No, they're not going to sell direct to consumers - as mentioned, this is against the law in most states. What they are going to do is move to much more of a build-to-order model rather than having dealers floorplan hundreds of cars. Europe (for one) has always been much more of a build-to-order new-car-buying culture than the US.