Nw Rifle Build - Page 4

Jeff Higgins · 03-24-2022, 05:07 PM

So, good progress in the last couple of days. All of the inletting is done, so all of the parts are located to the stock. I have to say, the biggest challenge to date was locating and inletting the escutcheons for the barrel keys. Trying to inlet oval recesses, four of them to boot, was a bit of a challenge. In addition to that, the lock bolt escutcheon is located and inletted.

All of the screw holes through the stock are located and drilled, and all of the screw holes are tapped. One key difference between originals and most modern replicas is the manner in which the upper tang and the trigger bar are held in place. Most modern replicas have tangs and trigger bars that are far too short, and do not extend the full length of the wrist of the stock. Additionally, they are held in place to the stock by wood screws.

Originals used a different, far stronger method. The upper tang and trigger bar both extend all the way down the wrist, and are screwed together, to one another, through the wrist of the stock. Remember, these were "weapons" in addition to "rifles" - if things got really out of hand, you might just have to use it like a club. No one wants to break the stock when it reaches that point. Here it is with some "construction" screws holding the tang and trigger bar together, and holding the lock in place. The trigger bar will, of course, suck down tighter with the proper shorter screw in place that doesn't want to hit the trigger guard.

This illustrates the difference in the tangs on this rifle and the Lyman Hawken.

So, yeah, good progress. I'm relieved that the inletting is done. All that is left is to finish up and mount the under rib and ramrod thimbles. Then I get to take it apart and start finishing everything. Can't wait to see how the tiger stripe starts to come out.

sc_rufctr · 03-24-2022, 06:23 PM

Nice work Jeff. What plans have you got for the color of the wood?

I always liked the lighter colored stocks on rifles.

fanaudical · fanaudical's Garage

Very nice. That doesn't seem to have taken as long as I thought it might.

I have a used CVA .50 that somebody gave me and the tang on that is maybe an inch long (just one screw into the stock). I've kinda worried about the barrel just tilting forward out of the stock...

Jeff Higgins · 03-24-2022, 07:41 PM

I'll be using the traditional aqua fortis solution to bring out the tiger striping in the maple. It is essentially an acid that "burns" the wood, so where it soaks in more it gets darker. The tiger striping is really just hard and soft spots in the wood, with the hard spots being more dense, so they soak up less solution. How dark it gets is entirely up to how much you apply, how long you leave it on before neutralizing it, and how many times you do it. It's very controllable that way. I'll just keep going until I like it.

As far as how long this has taken me to get this far, remember, I'm retired. And I live in the Pacific Northwest. It's been gray and rainy in the couple of weeks since I picked up the kit. I bet I'm approaching 100 hours into it already. I anticipate at least 100 more. The "hard" parts, the inletting and locating of the parts to the stock may be done, but that is really only the half of it. The final sanding and finishing of the stock, along with the sanding and polishing of all of the metalwork, will be very time consuming. Just not as nerve wracking and fraught with hazard as taking chisels to the wood to inlet everything. While I'm definitely "out of the woods", there is still an awful lot to do.

sc_rufctr · 03-24-2022, 08:02 PM

Like this?

(Obviously the grain runs in a different direction on your stock)

Jeff Higgins · 03-24-2022, 08:23 PM

Yup, like that, just not as pronounced. And yes, the stripes will be vertical on my stock. The grain always runs lengthwise down the stock, even on that rifle. The tiger striping doesn't parallel the grain, it runs perpendicular to it. Kind of a weird attribute of how maple grows.

John Rogers · 03-24-2022, 09:05 PM

I am not sure if I posted this hint in my earlier posts but this may help any ways. To make a guide for the barrel escutcheons get a piece of 4in x 4in aluminum angle and smooth all edges then use it to sit on top of the top barrel flat and down beside the side of the barrel and mark how far down the dovetail is, how wide the under lugs are and the middle of each under lug. Use a drill press and drill some very small holes so that when you put the barrel in place use your home made guide and have it so the new holes are along side the fore stock. Use a pin drill or something that can make some really small holes that go straight across the fore stock, no tilting , ETC. Inlet the other parts as necessary so that the barrel will be held down tightly. The areas where the barrel under lugs go can be cut out with one of your super sharp chisels, slightly bigger than the actual lug sine all that stuff does is to keep the barrel from flying UP. The movement aft is handled by the tang against the stock. With that type of tang always bounce the rifle slightly on the butt stock so it makes a dull sound and has no gap.

I would also recommend checking the hammer assembly and trigger assembly to make sure wherever any metal to metal rubbing occurs, the metal is polished like a mirror. That can get your trigger pull after it is set down to 2 ounces or less. I am making an assumption you have an electronic trigger pull meter?

Last thing, once those parts are ready and the trigger, hammer and nipple all seem to work okay, BEFORE any finish, is to tape the barrel down and go to the range and test fire it for it 2 or 3 times to make sure all works fine, then disassemble and do the finishing/bluing.
John

Jeff Higgins · 03-25-2022, 07:59 AM

Thanks, John, for the helpful advice. And yes, you did outline your method for locating the slots for the barrel keys in an earlier post. I more or less followed your method, sans the drill press. In the absence of that, (and being an old tooling dood), I fashioned some tooling from a piece of aluminum angle. I transferred the locations of the barrel keys, measuring down from the top barrel flat, to the angle. I then mounted the barrel in the stock, placed my tooling on the top flat, lined it up fore and aft (you can still see my pencil marks I used for reference) and drilled. Worked great.

I've worked both the lock and the triggers and have them functioning quite well together. The only hitch in that department is that the hammer does not rest flat on the top of the nipple. It makes contact on the rear of the nipple, with the front of the hammer about .010" high, so it's not at the same angle. It looks like it would be if the hammer fell a bit further, onto a lower nipple. I might try that first. If I don't get anywhere, what would you suggest? I've actually read on the muzzle loader forums that some guys take an end mill to the face on the hammer to change its angle. Doing so would, of course, require a vertical mill, which I do not own. I've also seen where guys heat and bend the hammer, but I think that is more for left to right adjustment (which is centered on my rifle). Bending it fore and aft, along its "thick" axis, looks pretty much impossible. Any ideas?

herr_oberst · 03-25-2022, 08:33 AM

I swear this is true - I read these two things within 20 minutes of each other last night:
(Not quite an exact match but enough of a coincidence to make me take notice!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Then again, I have a first year Winchester Highwall in .40-70 Sharps Straight that only goes about eight pounds with a standard weight 32" half octagon half round barrel.

KFC911 · 03-25-2022, 08:42 AM

Tabs wants to know if yer really gonna shoot that NIB Higgy-Hawkens

?

John Rogers · 03-25-2022, 03:54 PM

Well Jeff you can bend the "cock" or hammer without having to use any heat as I have had to do that a couple times. I modified a grade 8 bolt so it was tapered slightly and would go through that square hole. I clamp the "bolt" into a vise and use a "crows foot" to hook the contact face and bend it. If I remember correctly I would have to try bending half a dozen times and measure after each time until it hit the nipple flatly. I also did on one rifle grinding the face to remove the depression which is there to keep the percussion cap fragments flying all over!

You can also check Track of the Wolf as he carries various nipple lengths. Looking good so far!!!
John

Jeff Higgins · 07:05 PM

I tried one of my shorter nipples today and it lined up perfectly flat. I think I'm good to go.

I got the ramrod thimbles soldered to the under rib today, the under rib cut to length, and a few parts polished. I'm really surprised at how porous these castings are - they just won't completely "clean up". Which raises the question - just how well finished were originals? The barrel, for example - I have draw filed all eight flats, and it looks a good deal better than it did, covered in fly cutting machine marks. But how much effort did Sam and Jake put into polishing these things? I'm guessing not a lot. I really don't want this thing to be "too nice", as many modern examples often prove to be. I want it to be as authentic as possible, which means I'll have to show restraint and not over polish things.

tabs · 03-26-2022, 03:55 AM

This in 2022 and not 1840 out on the Plains..do a good job to make er proud.

oldE · 03-26-2022, 04:22 AM

Jeff, regarding how much effort the builders put into finishing a piece: remember many were made to order. There would be a wide range of finish depending upon the desires and pocketbook of the person paying. I suspect the examples finished to a higher standard are the ones which have been cherished and have survived.
Sort of like the number of Bugatti Royals which have survived compared to Model Ts.
I say polish the crap out of the thing. You should be happy just to look at it.

Best
Les

John Rogers · 03-26-2022, 08:10 AM

In the question of finishing "back in the day" as we say now, I have read the book by Major Roberts and finishing was only mentioned when it came to the interior of the barrel. We have fellows that do our matches with us using original muzzle loaders and there is no blue or brown finishing to be seen but NO rust? Sort of like the 4 rifles I have that were assembled in the 1950s and in all instances the finish has been worn off barrels, lock plates and such but no rust seen anywhere? Not sure how and my late mentor that built 3 of them wouldn't talk much about that?
John

fanaudical · fanaudical's Garage

A few years ago, I attended a Rendezvous in Colorado with my brother-in-law. He shoots black powder competitively there and invited me along to try my meager skills. This Rendezvous and most of its attendees aim for use of period dress and gear. There are two sections for camping - Those camping with no more than what was available "back in the day" and those who bring coolers, ice, and more "modern" gear.

I got to see some old rifles (late 1800-early 1900 stuff) and talk to the owners. Some rifles appeared not have been blued or otherwise finished, just had a natural long-term steel oxidization. Surfaces looked to be just worked steel (not super smooth, not badly pitted, but evidence of filing and scraping). As mentioned above, no rust and it was something I noticed. I asked about rust prevention. The old timers chuckled and just said "Lots of bacon grease". I didn't know if they were just pulling my leg or not and didn't bother to dig further.

Jeff Higgins · 03-29-2022, 05:57 PM

The stock is now finish shaped and sanded, ready for the aqua fortis treatment that will bring out the tiger striping. The biggest challenges were shaping the flats for the lock mortise and the opposite side of the stock, and shaping the cheek piece. I'm pretty happy with how all three turned out.

A few of the metal parts are now polished, and I'm even starting to rust brown a couple of them just to see how the process works.

Superman · 03-30-2022, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

As far as how long this has taken me to get this far, remember, I'm retired. And I live in the Pacific Northwest.

Unless I miss my guess, the real purpose of this project is to keep Mr. Higgins busy. Heck.....Mrs. Higgins might have bought this kit for him, for all we know.

Plus, Jeff needs more guns.

Jeff Higgins · 03-30-2022, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

Unless I miss my guess, the real purpose of this project is to keep Mr. Higgins busy. Heck.....Mrs. Higgins might have bought this kit for him, for all we know.

Heh heh... yup, that's a part of it. The original intent was for it to keep me busy into early summer, then have it ready to bring along on a trip to my bother in law and his wife's place for a family reunion in late July. I taught him to shoot muzzle loaders some 30 years ago, and it's become a tradition to do so when we stay at their place in Old Town, ID. Now my wife is somewhat concerned that I might finish before that... like later this week...

"No problem", I tell her - I already have my next one picked out. It will be a Jim Kibler kit for a Southern Mountain Rifle. This one will be my "squirrel rifle", in .36 caliber. It will make a fine companion to my Dixie Gun Works kit for a Tennessee Mountain Rifle that I built over 30 years ago, in .50 caliber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

Plus, Jeff needs more guns.

At least one more...

Jeff Higgins · 03-30-2022, 12:36 PM

So, I treated the stock with aqua fortis (nitric acid) and sealed it with Birchwood Casey Tru Oil today. The aqua fortis turns the wood a really nasty green, then you burn it with a heat gun to turn it brown. It turns a uniform brown, with no stripes. The stripes are brought out by rubbing it down with a Scotch Brite pad soaked in Tru Oil. All it needs from here is more coats of Tru Oil until I'm happy with the finish.

Meanwhile, all of the parts that will be brown are quietly rusting away in the workshop. This should take about a week, as I apply more of the cold rusting agent every day. Once they are as dark as I would like them to be, I'll card off the scale, oil them, and assemble the rifle.

I had it fully assembled yesterday to check function. I snapped a few caps on it in the back yard, and it sets them off reliably, with the hammer well centered and flat on the nipple. The set triggers work wonderfully after filing at least 1/8" off of both trigger bars, which were far too high to even let the hammer cock. To be fair, the triggers are meant to fit pretty much any rifle, so they leave the trigger bars tall so we can fit them to our rifle. Anyway, everything works as it should. It won't be long now...