Side arm while pig hunting
 

I want to go pig hunting next year. I have two places in mind. The first will be in Arizona and I'll be hunting javalina and the second will be in Texas and I'll be going after feral hogs.

I have two rifles I'll take. Both are bolt action and have scopes and they are chambered in 30-06 and 223.

I want to carry a sidearm for "just in case". I have a choice between a Browning Hi Power with 10 rounds of 9mm or a standard Colt 1911 with 7 rounds of 45 acp.

For ammo I'll be running my reloads in the 45, 180 gr lead SWC going about 850 fps and for the 9mm I'll be using factory ammo of a mix of 115 gr hollow points and FMJ. I'll load the magazines by alternating between the hollow points and FMJ.

Feral pigs can be dangerous so if I have to use a sidearm I'm in trouble. I shoot the Colt the best and only fair with the Hi Power.

I'm not going to buy a sidearm for this, so 44/357 mag, 10mm is out. I'm just going to stick with what I can have on hand now.

I'm undecided right now. A 9mm will penetrate better than a 45 and some hogs have a really thick hyde. I have two magazines of each, so 20 rounds of 9mm and 14 of 45.

any suggestions?

Feral Pigs? - You need something bigger than 9mm.

You really can't go wrong with a 357 magnum Old School revolver.

Paging Jeff Higgins for someone with LOTS of experience.

But my arm chair opinion (and I think it's a pretty good/valid opinion) is that the 115g 9mm is going to be inadequate. My thought is that you need heavy bullets with lots of momentum vs light weight bullets.

My vote is for 230gr .45 FMJ.
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-b768...1518146520.jpg

If you go with the 9mm, then I think you'd be far better off with 147gr flat nose rounds.
https://d3gxe0jmvtuxbc.cloudfront.ne.../large/930.jpg

The flat nose acts like a semi-wad-cutter according to Jeff and creates a better wound channel than a round nose while also maximizing penetration depth. I wouldn't trust 9mm JHP to penetrate appropriately, especially in 115gr.

Other folks make flat nosed ammo besides Speer. They may be hard to find in 147gr right now.

My main weapon will be my rifle, so either 30-06 or 223. I'm taking both to the range to see how well i can shoot them. In the real world, misses don't count so it doesn't matter if i have the perfect cartidge if I can't hit the target.

I had a border patrol friend a couple years ago who passed on. His father was a WW2 combat vet who fought from the first landings in Africa and into Sicily and then got into Normandy on D-Day+2 and walked all the way to Germany were he got a golden wound in the Hurtgen Forest and was sent home. My friend's father prefered the 9mm over the 45 because it would go thru a helmet and a 45 often would not.

I'm not spending $700 for a new pistol that is just insurance and I'll most likely never need. So, again, no 44/357 mag or 10mm. I'm putting boundries around this with only 45 acp and 9mm.

I can play with ammo, +P, different bullet weights and construction. I shoot the best with my 45 and I've almost worn out the rifleing in the barrel. I shoot the 9mm OK and probably good enough for a mag dump at a charging pig.

I thought hog hunting used dogs and a big azz knife. Saw some Hawaiian’s do it this way.

if anyone has read or watched Game of Thrones, this is how the king, Robert Baratheon, dies

If that MoFo is charging you, you need something to go through a skull as thick as my cabeza muy grandes.

I'm thinking 44 Mag. Or wear some P.F. Flyers so you can run faster and jump higher.

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I have done a lot of hog hunting and killed plenty, and quite a few >300 pounds. And I never needed a handgun. Just take your rifle. Hogs are not that dangerous, key is that you stay on your feet, no crawling after them in brush or walking backwards tripping over stepping out of their way. If there are follow up shots, even close, a rifle is fine. You can fire a rifle just looking over the barrel at close range and be pretty accurate.

Personally, the less guns I need to worry about, the safer I feel. I.e. how will you carry that pistol? One in the chamber, safety on? Now you are running around in the field with a loaded gun that is more likely to hurt you than help you.

My only advice otherwise is to take a large caliber rifle, so you don't have wounded hogs to deal with. I shot most mine with a .300 win mag (!) which will bring home even a marginal hit. For your choices, I'd definitely leave the .223 at home and take the 30-06!

And while I'm spending your money... Ideally you need a semi auto scoped rifle in 7.62mm or larger.
- Before our gun buy back I used to shoot feral pigs on a regular basis. "We" all used semi auto rifles.

Long story from long ago but I've also shot feral horses from a helicopter. Guess what rifle I was using?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1637993629.jpg

and I thought 30-06 was overkill on hogs..

If I can shoot the 30-06 as well as the 223, I'll probably use it. I've chosen the 60 gr Nosler partition for the 223 and with the 30-06 I'll just use a softpoint 150 gr or heavier.

The 45 has a good, solid safety and i would carry it with a round in the chamber. The Hi Power has a safety that doesn't have as solid index and carrying it with a round in the chamber doesn't give me the same confidence that the safety will stay on.

I think I would have a boating accident.

I always wanted a FN/FAL and I did qualify on the M14 when I was in the Navy. They are pleasant to shoot. I have several bolt guns and a semi auto isn't necessary.

When I started hunting, I always carried a sidearm. But after a couple seasons of schlepping it all over gods earth hunting in wilderness and public land in CA, I got tired of it and since I never needed it, I stopped. Whenever I feel I need to be armed, I make sure I have the rifle ready.

My .300 win mag is certainly an extreme example. It was what I had at the time as my all around "kill anything in NA" gun. It was loaded with Cu 120 grain bullets, IIRC. I'd definitely recommend a 30 caliber bullet. My friends generally hunt pigs with .270, 30-06, .308 and the like. If you stand hunt over a feeder in TX at close range where you can pick very clean shots, a .223 may do the trick. I'd wait for a broadside neck or chest shot, or a quartering away chest shot. I'd stay away from quartering to or head on or facing away shots. The shoulder of the pig can be very tough, with a bunch of scared up gristle that's tougher to penetrate than your average furry creature's shoulder. The heads are also pretty thick and have a very sloping angle, so a head shot from the front often glances off.

I would always prefer broadside shots. At close range, I'd go for the neck (to maximize the meat yield), further away, for the middle of the chest.

Sorry champ but if you saw our feral pigs IRL you would want a semi auto. :eek:

BTW Our cops still use the M14.

Just a WAG but I'd think .223 is too light for a wild hog.

223 will work if you use the right bullet and you place your shot in the right place.

Like the real estate guys whose motto is "location, location, location", the mantra for hunting handguns is "penetration, penetration, penetration". Solid bullets with flat noses penetrate the best, the straightest, and the deepest. Forget the hollow point or jacketed soft point nonsense. Neither has any place on game animals. Round nose solids leave wound channels that close up behind them, where flat nose solids cut a hole and remove material, leaving a far more devastating wound. With your two choices, mine would be the .45 auto with the 200 grain semi wadcutters.

When I finally acted on Jeff's suggestion of a single-action .45 Colt, THEN I understood. It is not the large-frame version that Jeff would likely choose for pig-hunting, but it can still spew a 255-gr Keith bullet at around 1000 fps. Plus....the ergonomics of it are such that it practically points itself. This is my "just in case" spoon in the woods. I think he said it would go through a deer lengthwise.

But yeah, the .45 ACP is also a good choice. Also, it spews projectiles at a faster rate and holds more than six.

Thats where I'm leaning right now. I shoot my 45 much better with thousands of rounds thru the pistol. And the safety is more secure.

If you are not going to take advice why ask the question.......

One need only a brain the size of a golf ball to decide between a 9mm and a 45.

And the pig will tear your ass up in any event.

A lot of the advice is junk and out of scope of my question. Did you miss my story of the WW2 combat vet choosing the 9mm? He also ditched his M1 Garand for a M1 carbine.

Anyway... I'm going with the 45 and 200 gr lead semi wad cutter as per Higgins advice. I've been shooting that load for decades. This is not a theoretical exercise.

Taking Higgins advice it the smart move. Good for you.

Rednecks here in Florida use dogs and duct tape. Catch the hogs, tape 'em up, take 'em home and corn feed 'em for a month before slaughter.

Funny, but over the years, I have actually settled upon the smaller framed Single Actions like yours, shooting "mid range" loads identical to what you describe, as my "woods bumming" combination. They are just so light and handy we really don't even know they are there, which is very attractive on multi-day sojourns with backpack. Any .44 or .45 caliber Keith type semi wadcutter, out of a .44 Special, Magnum, or .45 Colt at 1000-ish fps will indeed shoot lengthwise through a large deer. I've done it often enough to satisfy myself that it works. Unless I'm hunting elk, or black bear, I never grab the large framed guns and stoke them with the heavier loads. We just don't need 'em.

That's a huge part of this as well - pick the one you shoot the best.

As an aside, I really wish I could get heavier semi wadcutters to feed well in my 1911's. I've just never been able to get them to work reliably. The 185's and 200's are dead reliable, but going up to what I would use in the .45 Colt just really throws a wrench in the spokes. There are, however, 230 grain "truncated cone" solids available that I hear cycle just fine. I've just never used them, so I can't personally recommend them to others.

Another aside, that "truncated cone" shape was developed by the Germans during WWI for use in their Lugers. Hollow points and soft points had, by then, been barred from military use due to their overly destructive nature. These truncated cone bullets were seen as a "cheat", or a "workaround" skirting that rule, and were every bit as destructive as those that had been banned. As a result, any German caught carrying the truncated cone rounds was deemed to be in violation and summarily executed on the spot. The Allies really wanted to discourage their use... They were that effective...

In my earlier days in the military, I had a number of fellow Instructor Pilot buddies that wound hunt wild pigs on motorcycles. Once they got one cornered, usually in a briar patch, they would craw in there on hand and knees to finish the pig off. The must have pistol of choice was a 1911 .45 for the close-in work. Kinda like a Tunnel Rat in Vietnam. Some exciting days those were...

I've been looking for a reason to buy a Glock in 10mm or .357SIG, but those calibers are kind of overkill for CCW and not fun to shoot in small, light guns. But I'd think they'd be great for having out in the bush. I've never seen either caliber in factory-made SWC though.

https://www.sgammo.com/product/9mm-luger-ammo/100-round-box-9mm-luger-115-grain-flat-nose-fmj-ball-winchester-m1152-active-

Jeff, your opinion of this stuff, vs the original black talon, in the same caliber?

It's my favorite handgun, just on ergonomics alone. My hand just loves to hold it.

Pig shootn ain't a story of elegance, it's a story of shootn a lot and reloading a lot.
There are more pigs waiting to be culled then you can afford ammo to shoot em.

So if you worry a 9mm handgun won't do, you are right, it won't, it shouldn't even be a debate. bring more rifles, or at least a rifle shoots semi auto, with box magazine, and plenty of magazines to feed it.
And the bolt gun you mentioned, that is the backup

Guns have been around a while, but purpose bred dogs have been doing the job a lot longer and way better.
I'll take my 90 lb Boxer, (whom were bred for close quarter combat with Boars) over a side arm any day.

Being on your own in their environment with one of them critters is a huge risk.

That's the stuff I've been referring to - "truncated cone", a FMJ with a flat nose. This is, essentially, the design the Germans developed in WWI that proved so deadly effective. It's kind of the "Keith style semi-wadcutter" of the autoloader world. This is what I would choose if going with a semi-auto for pig hunting. Is it available in .45 ACP as well? Oh, and I would absolutely choose this over the old style Black Talon. The Black Talon might have been a decent hollow point (and a victim of its own vastly over sold hype), but it's never going to penetrate like these flat nose FMJ's. Remember- penetration, penetration, penetration...

Have you actually done this?

I have never hunted boars with dogs, but I've sure chased my share of black bear with them. The operative word here is dogs - plural. At least four or five. The only way dogs survive close encounters with black bears, when they bring them to bay or tree them, is by working as a team and constantly having a different dog jumping in while the bear is focused on killing the one in front of him. Even then, I have seen dogs severely injured by black bears. I've never seen one bad enough to have to put it down, but the houndsmen I hunted with assured me that happened more than they liked.

If you have a pack of 90 pound Boxers at your disposal, by all means, yes, they would present some formidable opposition to a wild boar. Your lone dog, by himself, would be killed in short order by any sizable boar. The notion that having him with you in wild boar country affords you better protection than having a sidearm is simply foolish, and would cost him his life. He may engage the boar long enough for you to make your escape, but he will pay for that with his life.

That makes sense. As much as we admire the loyalty and the teeth of a courageous dog, they are domestic animals. A 90-lb dog is way bigger than a raccoon, but that would be a fair fight. Maybe. If the dog was unusually quick and mean.

I like Stijn's idea. Semi-automatic high powered rifle with box magazine.

My Border Terriers like to use this technique when hunting rogue dogs such as pit bulls. Once the pit bull runs out of steam they hit him like a swarm of bees - all over him. I think the dogs see it as a "right to self defence" thing LOL

i've taken a lot of hogs with a bow.

100% of them have been scared sheetless of me. they run. is it scary? yea, sometimes. but i have never been charged or even eyeballed by a hog. they run. you just have to be smart and not corner one.

javalina? i only really know what the butt-end looks like. they haul arse when they see a human.

What are your thoughts RE: lightweight, fast bullet vs heavy, slow bullet (for instance 115gr vs 147gr 9mm)?

My thought is that a heavier bullet will have better penetration.

I still carry a sidearm, but that is for the racoons with distemper or rabies and other critters that i don't need to use the 30-06 on. Sometimes I take a small .22 revolver or semi-auto for rabbit and squirrel.

Perfect.............. what I have been told and great to have you confirm it............

changing out my personal defense loads to these......... the black talon goes back into inventory for "old times sake"

:) Thanks again.

You are absolutely right. Assuming similar construction, of course. A lightweight solid might penetrate better than a heavy hollow point, for example. The solid will always win the penetration contest, and the heavier for caliber the better.

"Sectional density" is the fancy ballistician's term for describing how much a bullet weighs relative to caliber. For example, a 200 grain bullet in .30 caliber will have a much higher "sectional density" than a 200 grain bullet in .45 caliber. With less frontal area for the same weight, or in other words more weight relative to its cross section, the .30 caliber will significantly out-penetrate the .45 caliber. I guess this is kind of intuitively obvious, but it does bear mention.

I have always liked heavy for caliber bullets. I'm a big fan of reliable, deep penetration. I've found it to kill more reliably, and to give me more shot options than a rapidly expanding, shallow penetrating bullet. Oh, the latter can kill spectacularly on broadside lung or high heart (my preference) shots. It will, however, fail miserably on that "Texas heart shot" (up the poop chute from behind).

I remember in my youth watching an old farmer butcher a large hog in a pen. He put a 22 long rifle up against its head and shot it....and shot it and shot it. It did not slow it down much...and thrashed around wildly, screaming. If the farmer had been in the pen, it would have been pretty rough. He finally finished it with an axe. The entire thing was horrible, but taught me that a head shot with a small caliber was not the answer for an old hog.