Photography Question for Glen

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

I take lots of pictures of my kids skiing. They are ski race kids and have been doing some pretty challenging double black runs since they were about 6 or 7.

When I try to get photos of them on the hill, the lens always seems to flatten the hill and makes them look like they are tearing up the bunny hill as opposed to the steep and deep they are really negotiating.

How can I make the images reflect the geography?

masraum · 01-10-2022, 09:35 AM

I'm not Glenn (clearly).

I think if you could get to where you were photographing from the side of the hill, that might help a little. Also, if you could use a telephoto to get a tighter crop, that might help. If you could do some panning which would motion blur the background, but keep them in focus that would probably make the photos seem a lot more dynamic.

Most photos of hills seem to make them seem less extreme. Take a look at photos of olympic ski jumps, they don't seem that big or steep or crazy in most photos.

LEAKYSEALS951 · 01-10-2022, 09:41 AM

I'm not glen either, but you got me wondering-

https://skibums.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/amateur-ski-photography-15-depicting-steepness-introduction/

https://skibums.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/amateur-ski-photography-17-depicting-steepness-shooting-from-above/

https://skibums.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/amateur-ski-photography-18-depicting-steepness-shooting-from-below/

https://skibums.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/amateur-ski-photography-16-depicting-steepness-shooting-across-the-fall-line/

(now applying this on the east coast might be a bit more of a challenge!)

masraum · 01-10-2022, 09:43 AM

This is what I was thinking for showing the hill in a way that made it seem more extreme.

If you could get some motion blur...

or even just snow flying around with the kids in some sort of dynamic pose.

this photo is great, but too large to post inline.
https://www.outsideonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/24/be-a-better-skier_h.jpg

It's entirely possible that this kid is hauling butt, but with the level horizon all motion frozen with them in a relatively upright position, they could be standing completely still.

masraum · 01-10-2022, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

I'm not glen either, but you got me wondering-

https://skibums.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/amateur-ski-photography-15-depicting-steepness-introduction/

https://skibums.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/amateur-ski-photography-17-depicting-steepness-shooting-from-above/

https://skibums.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/amateur-ski-photography-18-depicting-steepness-shooting-from-below/

https://skibums.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/amateur-ski-photography-16-depicting-steepness-shooting-across-the-fall-line/

(now applying this on the east coast might be a bit more of a challenge!)

Imagine that! The Internet's got everything and anything you might want (and probably a bunch you don't!).

GH85Carrera · GH85Carrera's Garage

A longer telephoto lens, and most importantly a camera that can shoot in RAW mode. Exposure of the snow is really hard, as the exposure washes out all the detail of the snow, especially on a sunny day. Most of what we see in your sample is just a white blob and almost no detail of the shape of the hill. In RAW mode you can import the image in to a program like Photoshop, or the camera's utility program. Shoot everything in RAW mode. Then post process it to get the snow detail.

Of course getting on the slopes and shooting action takes it to another level. You will need to be able to ski as fast as them and not fall, use no use poles, while skiing backwards. So for most people is comes down to the angle you shoot them from.

Exposure is a very tricky thing with snow. Most cheaper cameras just blow it out to a RGB value of 255 255 255 or close to it. That is just pure white, and it should be no higher than the mid 240s.

Go look at the samples of skiers in magazines or on the web, and look at the detail in the snow, and the angles the pros used.

You picked a difficult subject to photograph. Get the kids to take up water skiing, it is easier to photograph!

stomachmonkey · 01-10-2022, 10:12 AM

Like Glen said, shoot RAW.

masraum · 01-10-2022, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

A longer telephoto lens, and most importantly a camera that can shoot in RAW mode. Exposure of the snow is really hard, as the exposure washes out all the detail of the snow, especially on a sunny day. Most of what we see in your sample is just a white blob and almost no detail of the shape of the hill. In RAW mode you can import the image in to a program like Photoshop, or the camera's utility program. Shoot everything in RAW mode. Then post process it to get the snow detail.

Of course getting on the slopes and shooting action takes it to another level. You will need to be able to ski as fast as them and not fall, use no use poles, while skiing backwards. So for most people is comes down to the angle you shoot them from.

Exposure is a very tricky thing with snow. Most cheaper cameras just blow it out to a RGB value of 255 255 255 or close to it. That is just pure white, and it should be no higher than the mid 240s.

Go look at the samples of skiers in magazines or on the web, and look at the detail in the snow, and the angles the pros used.

You picked a difficult subject to photograph. Get the kids to take up water skiing, it is easier to photograph!

I'm assuming shooting in manual (assuming the same sort of shot over and over again) would be a way to ensure that the exposure was consistent and not blown out on the snow. Take a shot, look at the snow and histogram, then duplicate the settings with a slight tweak to enhance the snow a bit. I did something similar for my trip to the Amazon.

GH85Carrera · GH85Carrera's Garage

If you can underexpose it or if you have a high dynamic range option that might do it. Still no substitute for RAW. With RAW you can keep the dark areas from getting too dark and just loosing all detail, and the snow from blowing out.

As I mentioned, it is tricky. Be glad you are the digital world. It is almost impossible to do with slide film, and really hard with negative film. Digital has a simple mode change for most people.

Good luck, and take lots of pictures. Again in the olden days of film it was expensive to shoot a lot, now it is just a battery swap and keep shooting if you buy a large memory card. You can never have too big of a memory card, or too many pictures of your kids.

vash · vash's Garage

i'm glen!

i've never been a telephoto guy. having said that, action sports shots are the place for them. but still, i think get closer to the subjects and play with depth of field to throw the back ground out of focus. pan your shots to make the action look fast.

me? i would put GoPros on the kids and go inside to have a whiskey by the fire.

masraum · 01-10-2022, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

If you can underexpose it or if you have a high dynamic range option that might do it. Still no substitute for RAW. With RAW you can keep the dark areas from getting too dark and just loosing all detail, and the snow from blowing out.

As I mentioned, it is tricky. Be glad you are the digital world. It is almost impossible to do with slide film, and really hard with negative film. Digital has a simple mode change for most people.

Good luck, and take lots of pictures. Again in the olden days of film it was expensive to shoot a lot, now it is just a battery swap and keep shooting if you buy a large memory card. You can never have too big of a memory card, or too many pictures of your kids.

Even with RAW the highlights can be blown out to the point that no adjustment is going to get them back. The problem with most HDR is that it's an in camera version of image stacking in most cases. So the camera takes 2-3 images and then works some magic to merge them into one image with higher range. I would think that might be a problem with a highly dynamic image. With digital cameras it's usually a balancing act between aesthetics, getting detail where you want it and possibly being willing to lose some detail at one end of the range. I think some sensors have or are coming out that have better range, but I haven't kept up with technology. Maybe the range isn't increasing that much. Maybe it's just the ability to shoot at high ISO without all of the noise that used to be associated with high ISO.

And yes, I always shoot in RAW.

masraum · 01-10-2022, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vash

i would put GoPros on the kids and go inside to have a whiskey by the fire.

ding, ding, ding! Winner.

At least, until everyone realizes how boring go pro videos are unless you're the most extreme of the extreme with hundreds of hours of video to be edited into one super cool couple/few minute video.

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

I have an issue with Go-Pros on the kids…

Ever heard about Michael Schumacher? Having a kid who’s ski helmet most likely saved her life 2 years ago, I won’t be putting a camera in my kids any time soon.

LWJ · 01-10-2022, 10:50 AM

^^^Yes.

Also, extreme dirt bike photos / videos really flatten the hill as well. There are two challenges here: 1) snow exposure and 2) showing the slope.

LEAKYSEALS951 · 10:55 AM

I need to shoot more RAW. I've had some good success pulling out info that would have otherwise been lost- just handling the files has been a hassle. I need to step up.

One cool thing about skiing is that you can have them wear those super reflective goggles and bright stuff, so you could underexpose a bit for the snow and still get a fairly decent light fill on the face. If it were just eyeballs on a face, they'd be too dark when the snow got underexposed to an acceptable level.

My older canons always did good at picking out red. Red goggles/jacket on a white background, even the older junky autofocusses could nail it sharp as a tack.

Sooner or later · 01-10-2022, 10:53 AM

if you are shooting up or down slope you don't get the angle of slope perspective. Shooting across slope would help significantly.

vash · vash's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclebilly

I have an issue with Go-Pros on the kids…

Ever heard about Michael Schumacher? Having a kid who’s ski helmet most likely saved her life 2 years ago, I won’t be putting a camera in my kids any time soon.

i have never put a camera on my helmet.

i think the perspective from there sucks anyways. i like chest mounts.