Newer-ish European car reliability?

Eric Hahl · Eric Hahl's Garage

I'm in the market for a sedan. I'm thinking 2015-19. My tastes are pushing me towards a European make. I seem to like the style better than anything else but I am concerned with reliability, electronics, etc.

Some here say they would never buy a late model Euro make and that kind of scares me. What do you all say? Any specific cars to steer clear of? Any particular brands better than others?

oldE · 06-09-2021, 10:46 AM

Funny you should mention this. The other day we got a letter from the local VW dealer saying if the steering wheel radio and cruise control buttons stop working on my wife's 2016 Sportwagon, VW will fix it for us. Two years ago, they replaced a switch which tells the computer the transmission is in park.
We have owned 6 other VWs in four decades and had warranty work for a misaligned door, rear door window lifts and rust repair on a 12 year old Jetta, but nothing electrical until this one. You experience may differ.

Best
Les

masraum · 06-09-2021, 10:58 AM

My vote is that whatever you get, you get something with relatively low miles and CPO. That'll give you a year or two to drive the thing around and figure out if you got a good one or not.

Steve Carlton · 06-09-2021, 11:02 AM

That plus get the CPO extension. With Volvo, for example, a 5 year extension of the CPO warranty gets you to 10 years from the original in-service date. With 100,000 total miles, that's about $3K. With unlimited miles, it's about $4K. And that's retail prices, so you could probably negotiate for something less. You also get access to a low APR. I'm sure a lot of other makes offer something similar as well.

Jrboulder · 06-09-2021, 11:07 AM

I used to love refuting the people on here that said they were bad cars, but now I realize it's not normal for a modern car to be guaranteed to leave you on the side of the road before 100k miles.

recycled sixtie · recycled sixtie's Garage

It's a crapshoot with Euro cars. My daughter bought a used 2013 Audi Q5 with low miles and three years later no issues. If it needs repairs I have recommended to her to go to a local indy shop.

Compare that to my wife's 2002 Toyota Camry which we bought new. We also test drove the VW Jetta and Honda Accord. Although only 40k miles on it it looks like new. No rust and very reliable. I just don't see many VW Jetta around of that age anymore

Having said that the Camry kills me with boredom driving it. If I had to do it over again I would have encouraged her to get the Jetta because it was more fun.

I have had a ppi done on my used cars the last ten years to check for issues including flood damage, accident damage etc. Good luck with your search.

Cheers, Guy

Nostril Cheese · 06-09-2021, 11:27 AM

Lease, dont buy

onewhippedpuppy · 06-09-2021, 12:00 PM

Bought my wife’s 2010 Mercedes E63 AMG two years ago with 40k, now has 60k. I’ve replaced a battery and done regular maintenance, that’s it. It has been an absolute tank that still puts a goofy smile on my face when I drive it, especially since I deleted the resonators a few weeks ago. It has a very light front end squeak that you only hear at parking speeds with the radio off that I need to track down, I think maybe the sway bar bushings are the culprit. Otherwise it still looks and drives exceptional.

MRM · 01:09 PM

I think it depends a lot on the make and model. My impression is that the cheaper versions and some of the high performance versions of the European near luxury cars are all less reliable than the core models. For instance, people on the board complain incessantly about BMWs, but I had a 2011 535 that I put 140,000 on with little more than wear items and maintenance. The 3 Series gets a lot of good press as drivers cars, but I think a lot of the problems with the brand fall to the entry level cars or the high performance Ms or luxuriously complicated 7 Series. The bread and butter cars seem pretty solid.

I'd still have my 535 but my wife made me get rid of it in order to get our third Mercedes E Class. Also flawless cars, going back to a 2008 E350/ They have been even more reliable and less maintenance than my 535.

But I also had an Audi RS6 that would have made a Ferrari look cheap to maintain. It was the fastest car I'll ever own by far, but it cost dollars per mile I put on it. I will never buy another Audi again, by the way. (And I paint VWs with the same brush.)

But I think and relatively late model mid-level Mercedes E Class or BMW 5 Series will prove reliable and very capable grand touring cars. AMG Mercedes have a reputation for reliability as high performance vehicles, in line with Matt's experience. BMW's Ms and 7 Series in general are too complex and sacrifice reliability for performance and electronic wizardry, but the 5 Series and E Class both seem to enjoy good records.

RedBaron · 06-09-2021, 01:13 PM

2015 BMW M235i here. 85k miles on it and i've had zero issues. I do regular maintenance (oil changes, 1 set of spark plugs, filters, etc). The N55 is pretty solid.

Eric Hahl · Eric Hahl's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRM

But I think and relatively late model mid-level Mercedes E Class or BMW 5 Series will prove reliable and very capable grand touring cars. AMG Mercedes have a reputation for reliability as high performance vehicles, in line with Matt's experience. BMW's Ms and 7 Series in general are too complex and sacrifice reliability for performance and electronic wizardry, but the 5 Series and E Class both seem to enjoy good records.

Interesting as the E series, probably the 350 is in line with what I'm looking at.

thor66 · 06-09-2021, 01:17 PM

the problem is that new cars are stuffed full of electronics

that means Japanese overall for reliability

jbryan · 06-10-2021, 04:27 AM

Buy Korean, Genesis, KEA, Hyundai, all very reliable and cheap to
fix.

masraum · 06-10-2021, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbryan

Buy Korean, Genesis, KEA, Hyundai, all very reliable and cheap to
fix.

We've had several threads on Hyundai engine failures at 40k miles. No way in hell that I'd going with Hyundai or Kia. (Genesis is just an upmarket Hyundai, I believe)

If I was going to go that route, I can't even imagine why you'd go Korean over Japanese.

onewhippedpuppy · 06-10-2021, 06:11 AM

I’ve driven a Kia Stinger and Genesis G70, they share the turbo V6 but are otherwise quite different. I would happily drive either, both are very nice inside and drive great. The Genesis in particular has a very sport sedan feel, very agile and nimble with great punch from the V6. The Stinger is much more of a GT, you can hustle it but won’t have as much fun doing so. There is nothing Japanese that really compares, they are designed to compete with the Germans at a lower price point. In my opinion the Japanese don’t build a credible sports sedan right now.

Nickshu · Nickshu's Garage

We bought a 2019 VW Golf R in 2019 brand new. The car has been 100% trouble free since new, have about 30K miles on it. Have only done oil changes.

Eric Hahl · Eric Hahl's Garage

Thanks all. Lots to think about. I really should just buy a Lexus or something Japanese but meh, just can't bring myself to do it at this stage.

MRM · 09:13 AM

The 2012 and later Mercedes E350 has a 300 HP engine that is quite stout. It was the equal of my 2011 BMW 535. I never wanted for power with it. We have taken our 2012 to DE with the local BMW club. It is a lot of fun and does way more than expected. The instructors seemed impressed. The 535 felt sportier, but I can't say it was any faster.

Mercedes updated the E Class to the E 300 and E 400 and eliminated the E550. In my opinion the E300 is underpowered. More recently the E300 has been rebadged as the E350 and the E400 is the E450. The new E350 is a nice car but still a little underpowered. The 300 HP E350 are more than adequate and what you'd expect of a car at that level. The E400/450s are about half way between the E350 and the old E550 in performance. The 2020 and earlier E450 does 0-60 in something like 4.5 seconds and the refreshed 2021 model does it in 4.2 or something like that. So the performance is quite stout.

The newer E400/450s come with variable drive modes, economy, luxury, sport and sport+. In sport the car comes alive and does its best AMG imitation.

We have decided that as far as bang for the buck goes, we will try to buy recent model E Class cars in good condition and keep them a long time. You get a car that's fun to drive and comfortable to ride in that looks nice and feels good for a long time. It's worked for us so far. The 2008 went to a good home with well over 100,000 on it. The 535 went to the same family with 140,000 on the clock. We still have the 2012 E350 with 100,000 on it and it still oks almost new. We'll keep it several more years. And my 2020 E450 will follow me into retirement, if not beyond.

Eric Hahl · Eric Hahl's Garage

Thanks MRM. Good info there. I'm still undecided. I'm thinking at this point more about refinement and comfort than all out performance. Can't be a slouch though

Bob Kontak · Bob Kontak's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

We've had several threads on Hyundai engine failures at 40k miles. No way in hell that I'd going with Hyundai or Kia.

It was very specific what Cab was driving when his tiny turbo Hyundai engine shiet the bed.

Three minutes on Google and you know the problems ceased around 2014.

OP don't want no Korean/Nippon car so lets argue later.