You make a great point.

We could explain it but it would be a lost cause. You’re not gonna wear one anyway.

I still have ONE .... gave all the rest of 'em away years ago :D. But you are correct....

Anybody want a free tie....Glen ;)?

I've been on 5 "music cruises" too.... after paying $7-8K for the pleasure, I'll be damned if I was packing dress up clothes for dining either :(.... wtf?

Well.... I did take along a few ties... err tyes :D.

I have in excess of 90 ties.

I haven’t been on a cruise in years but I wore a suit and tie to dinner every night, even black-tie one evening. To this day, if I go to an expensive restaurant, I’m in a suit and tie.

It seems there are some that are of the opinion this is old fashioned, manners do not matter any more, nobody notices or cares.

People always notice, always. Just because they do not tell you, does not mean they did not notice.

Great clip...here is the embed....

Few weeks ago at the Walmart deli, overheard a young bloke using "Please, Ma'am, and Thank you" while he was speaking and I complimented him on his manners. His reply "I'm from Texas."

Left a very positive impression on me....well done, sir!

<iframe width="911" height="387" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gfTAOsRki0E" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And that’s especially true of women. They absolutely, positively, pay attention to the details. Ignore their interests at your peril…

Yeah women are really turned off by men who wear hats indoors. [emoji848]

I'm sure there are many traditions I don't fully understand, but the whole "hat off to show respect" is close to the top of the list.

Why is removing your hat noble/polite when shaking hands? Whether it's to enter someone's house, or "congratulations on an enjoyable game" while walking off the 18th green.

Here's the scenario +90 % of the time. Hat is removed and held with the left hand as you approach. The person runs their right hand through their sweaty, oily hair (often more than once) to fluff out the "hat hair", and then extends the same hand for the shake. Living in the south most of my life has taught me than almost anyone wearing a hat outside for more than 30 minutes will look much better hat on than hat off....at least until a shower and comb are available. Maybe back when no one bathed more than once a week, the sweaty/oily hair was the expected norm.

I really don't find anything polite about being offered a sweaty/oily hand. Only marginally better than extending a hand after using the bathroom. :eek: Just keep the damn hat on. Makes so much more sense to me.

Well there is this...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-rude-wear-hat-indoors-222916590.html

and there is this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/customs/yarmulke.shtml#:~:text=Most%20Jews%20will%20cover% 20their,respect%20and%20fear%20of%20God.

Apparently we love to disagree

Oftentimes you make a great deal of sense to me. This is not one of those times. Yes you are correct, this is not about Jesus' judgment but rather, it is about man's. Jesus doesn't give a rip what we wear.

Tell you what....I invite you to illustrate your disdain for manners in this way: Next time you have to appear in court and the judge walks in, when the Bailiff says "All rise," you sit with your arms crossed and sneer at the judge.

How many are Jerry Garcia ties ;)?

You couldn't pay me to go on a "regular cruise" like those.... different strokes.

Those "Blues" and "Jam Band" cruises were a hoot tho'.... 5 total.

Number of suits seen.... ZERO.

Birthday suits don't count :D

When it comes to ties, I prefer Hermès over Jerry Garcia.

I think we might have different expectations for a cruise…

Because your "rules" aren't everyone elses rules. In orthodox Jewish homes a woman never covers her head and a man always covers his head. In muslim countries we are considered uncivilized heathen because a woman actually shows her face in public. In the turn of the 20th century a woman showing a knee at the beach was considered a brazen loose woman. So, who gets to make the rules? Who gets to decide they can be changed?

For me, it depends on the occasion. I have fully dignified ties, and some which are more colorful. When the occasion allows, I enjoy wearing the latter. I like dark suits, black shoes, white shirts, and a splash of color in the center.

And I am still stunned by those who report their belief that manners are stupid. I wonder if they say "please." Do they flick their boogers on the floors of restaurants? Do they let the door slam shut into the face of the woman behind them?

The women in my life don't touch door handles when they are with me. You know what? If a man goes through life dressed nicely, shows manners, uses terms like Sir and Ma'am (ladies actually like "Miss" better), says please and thank you, offers compliments, etc., he's going to be far more respected than the idiots who wear sweat pants and spit on sidewalks. Want people to think you are someone to respect? ACT LIKE IT!

I fully agree that good manners and respectful behavior is always in style. I am just challenging what is pointing out that what is 'correct' has changed. In my dad's generation a gentleman never went out without a fedora on. In my late teens, only bikers or 'those other people' wore an earring. Want to talk about manners?
Shut the darn phone off when in a restaurant or at the dinner table.
Don't brag about what you own or where you've been.
Don't be rude and alienate visitors in church because you don't like the way they dress. Treat them with disdain and they may not come back to any church if they think all Christians are more interested in what they wear than who they are.

Who makes the rules? Whose ever "house" you are in makes the rules. When in Rome.

To use your analogy when the US military goes to a Muslim country do we say screw your customs (rules) or do our women follow their "rules"?

Or Japan where they require you remove your shoes.

If you don't want to follow the Customs, traditions, "rules" that are considered proper etiquette then you don't go. You don't get to ask tell me why, who made the rule and then I will tell you if I am going to follow it and if you don't like it too bad.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mb1kl94qbH4" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If you truly believe that than removing your hat is good manners and respectful. So you remove your hat. He can be excused for not removing his hat initially, but, he was asked to remove his hat by an official, so you remove your hat. That's is it the conversation is over. No one need explain to you why it is proper, the tradition or anything else. You be respectful and remove your hat or you leave.

So what comes next? This person is going to decide whether he needs to go to confession before receiving communion?

I was taught manners...but hats are not part of those lessons. Please, Thank You, Holding doors open, etc. I do all of those without fail. I would never enter a church wearing a cap, but virtually everywhere else, the cap stays on... that's when I don't care. If I happen to enter a Walmart or a Target with a cap on, who am I disrespecting... Sam Walton, other shoppers, the current CEO?

Like neckties ... just arbitrary "rules" that I will politely ignore, and if someone got offended and asked me to remove it....

No Thank You :D

Absolutely we do! If it wasn't for those first rate musical experiences at sea... I would never be found on one to begin with :D.

Formal dinners on a cruise is a throw back to first class dining when a cruise was a form of travel not the destination.

Us second or third classers didn't wear ties to dinner on board in those days. Most of my life I was third class or at least treated that way, maybe I have made it to second class? I am Jack and I know it. But I am OK putting on the formal attire and following the traditions even as people look down at me. I enjoy dress well and wearing a tie. It just makes you feel better. I own my own tux and can tie a bow tie.

I don't wear hats, but if I did I would remove it when entering a building because it is the proper thing to do and so not to offend anyone, I guess for me it is the same reason I wipe my feet before entering someone's home, holding a door for another person, turning and covering my face when I sneeze, Holding a ladies chair at the table and pushing it in, chewing my food with my mouth closed, placing a napkin on my lap, not burping so the whole room can hear it or farting in public. I dropping the ladies off at the door and then parking the car, I help the elderly when ever possible and let cars in in front of me.

It certainly seems kind, courteous, mannerly and gentlemanly and really what does it hurt?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YP-d_Dt-X-g" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

i didnt say i disdain matters.

i said in church, wearing a hat or not is irrelevant.

every social space has social norms. hat in church is a dumb one to get your panties in a bunch over. if we want to talk about what social norms should be, thats a different subject entirely. however, the thread is a grown man being mad about a stranger wearing a hat.

The issue of the thread is about a man wearing a hat in a venue regardless of what it is being offended because he was wearing a hat "against social norms" of the venue. It may be dumb but it is the social norm. The person getting his panties in a twist is the guy wearing the hat because he was asked to remove the hat to comply with the "social norm". Getting his panties in a twist over that is pretty dumb. He should just leave.

If you want to talk about what social norms should be, thats a different subject entirely.

Having been born into very middle class society, I have never been to the high social events as a guest. I have been to a few as a photographer. I was just the hired help, and I was in a suit and tie, but I have never worn a tux, I doubt I ever will.

I sure have never been invited to a party or even that is black tie mandatory. On the cruise we took to most of the Hawaiian islands one couple rented an entire second cabin just for their clothes. Evidently they liked playing dress-up. They were were in different clothes at ever venue. I am sure they loved it, but that would be sheer hell for me.

I'd guess that those who are dismissing norms here would also attend a job interview or a romantic first date with their hair combed. Silly norm that it is. And so....this is really not a question of whether they respect norms. It is a question of how they discriminate between them. Accept some. Dismiss others as "silly." And thinking this makes them look smart.

Why anybody would aspire to be average, as opposed to being better tomorrow than they are today, is something I’ll never understand.

I’m disappointed in some of the replies here but not surprised. Some people just don’t get it.

Totally agree^^, but also understand the somewhat disrespectful perception of a hat indoors, especially in a church.

Lets take fashion statement out of the conversation.

Most of you on this forum had somewhat of a normal/ supportive upbringing. This young man could have had zero guidance as a child/ young man. If you don't have a supportive family or even friends, embracing some type of religion or church may be the first step of trying to make yourself better or at least find some type of guidance.

Perhaps the lesson here- for all of us:, if what you witnessed bothered you so much to post on PP, what are you doing to make it better? Did you make the young man feel welcomed- or did he feel judged???

Did you introduce yourself after services to him?
Did you arrange to meet with him for coffee or lunch to learn his story?
What if what he had on his back were perhaps" the best clothes" he had?

We are to love all, not just the easy ones to love.

the thread is a man having his feelings hurt because a man wore a hat in church.

it sounds like you are having a lot of feelings about that.

i can tell you want doesn't look smart, writing a page long post on a random internet forum complaining that someone wore a hat in church.

oh the humanity

No, I don't think that's what this is. The current topic of this thread is about how much smarter and tougher some folks are because they imagine others to be getting their feelings hurt and failing to notice the idiocy of manners and decorum.

I'm at a nat'l lab with physicists that wear neither long pants or shoes most days and by golly, if they're in a meeting with someone having one or more stars on their shoulder, even they're in a suit. There's heck to pay if word gets back that you were under dressed yet you knew better.

HOWEVER... A suit does not make a gentleman. I've been around many people in suits that met absolutely none of those standards beyond knowing how to tie their shoes.

try reading the first post.

A man had his feelings hurt because he was wearing a hat "against social norms" (your statement).

It sounds like you have an issue with that.

Should I go find that pic of you in a dress at the OCF :D?

I am smarter than the average idiot or average Mensa member... I just happen to look stoopid ;).

Not sure why this thread has devolved into an argument. I just avoid places where I may be judged for my dickes shorts and vans. If I do get judged, oh well.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

You must be new here ... it's what we do :D

To sumarize this thread ....

Wearing jeans to church is just fine (setting a new normal), but not removing a ball cap when entering a Home Depot is very disrespectful and shows a lack of manners and poor upbringing. Now we can move on.... mebbe ;).

Next argument please :D....

Thanks, but I still remember it from the first time I read it. ;)

It's a classic. And it so happens that my outfit was respectful of the local culture and customs. :)

Yeah, that's the part I don't get too. Sure, we argue here. But it just stuns me that people would come here to announce their disdain for manners and decorum. If I started a thread, do you suppose they might boast of their poor hygiene too? Maybe they're not very in bed either, and want to tell people.

Should I form a positive impression of someone because they consider manners and decorum to be silly? Most people want to be regarded positively, or so I thought.

Is wearing jeans to church acceptable (now)?

I don't think I have EVER seen a man remove their cap entering a Home Depot.

True story.... circa 1970. My dad had a retired preacher friend who had never been to the coast, so dad decided to take him and off they went. But as dad tells it, he drew the line when "Brother Embler" was going to walk out the long fishing pier still wearing his tie... so off it came ;).

Times and mores change...

I can almost guarantee that some of the older ladies were just as agast over the OP's jeans as he was about the cap.

I think that's the point most are trying to make here....

Matthew 7:1

I wasn't always a heathen :D

no, i said no one cares. and was quickly told that everyone cares.

did you even read the thread? lol