Whos Knows Book Publishing Here - NOOB Question

asphaltgambler · 08:15 AM

Hey all - I have an idea for a Christian children's illustrated book aimed to @4-6 years old. The subject matter / topic has not been covered at all in my research.

I have a complete outline; essentially the written portion with very specific ideas on what illustrations for each page should look like. I have contacted a local Christian book publisher whos specializes in this area.

I am not an experienced 'writer' of any sort, but I'm pretty good at putting my thoughts down on paper and telling a short story. I also know nothing about publishing, procedures, but I do know business and marketing. Ideally I would like for children to see the cover art, topic and either pick it up, be compelled to read or have their parents
read it to them, possibly become a keepsake. Lastly be at least somewhat successful financially, even if it results in a profit margin of pennies per book.

The publisher is 'offering' me a deal where I essentially pay their firm to edit, illustrate, publish and market the book. 1/3 at signing, 1/3 more when illustrations
are done, 1/3 when the books are ready to ship. I would own 100% IP of the storyline, main character.

I just received this proposal and my first question is for them: Show me existing client(s), similar deals and how that went for them. Show me the numbers.

So much advice needed please, seems I could 'invest' al lot of my own money, only to have boxes of books that no one buys or reads. Also, the retail price point $17.50 they project - seems too high for a children's book to me, that no one would pay that.

herr_oberst · 08:44 AM

I was involved in general printing and layout for about 40 years, don't know much about book publishing.
A couple of questions.
Who owns the electronic files? You own the intellectual rights, thats a given, but if you have a run of 2500 and it's a huge hit and you need 10,000 more, will you be able to hand the printer your flash drive with all the digital layout and images and have them print more, or will you be renting the rights to the digital layout from the initial publisher?

Have you gone to more than one publisher to get a bid? Just because you went to a christian publisher, don't assume that they are going to be giving you the best deal. Lots of book publishers out there. Lots of really, really big printer houses that can gang stuff up and save you money.

Has the publisher offered different costs using different grades of materials and numbers of colors?

Is the 17.50 cost for 4/color perfectbound with superglossy paper throughout with a 6 color and 2 varnish boardstock cover, or is it just a work and tumble saddle stich self-cover on low grade paper?

You need to sit down with a sales rep that can walk you through your first printing job, someone you trust to tell you the answers, and give you options for every single step of the way.

Printing is not cheap, especially for the first timer. Like you said, you don't want to wind up with a bunch of never to be sold books in your garage while your 911 sits in your driveway.

Edit. A great source of graphic design and layout is the local college where you might be able to find a design student willing to work for cheap to help design the book.

asphaltgambler · 03-21-2022, 09:07 AM

Answers:

I don't know who has ownership of electronic files...yet.
This is the 1st publisher I've contacted
Their proposal has a few different 'levels' of buy-in
I do not know specifically if the retail pricing includes the superglossy / 4 color. but I'll ask that
Great idea on illustrators from local college or similar to help me.

Superman · 03-21-2022, 09:24 AM

FWIW, it would seem to me that the most important element of this project, in achieving success, is not so much in the production but rather in the marketing. Ship cases of this thing to all the nation's bookstores and you have success. Sit on a street corner with a cardboard sign and sales will not be robust. I suppose....Amazon. Just thinking aloud.

$17.50 doesn't seem like that much.

Illustrations are really important in children's books, I think.

I have a niece who published a children's book. Perhaps I could ask about her experiences.

MRM · 03-21-2022, 03:46 PM

I know the company you’re referring to and I would advise against going with them. They are essentially a vanity publishing house selling self-published books at marked-up prices. You’ll get no support or promotion after the book is printed. You’ll get a box of books and be told if you want to sell them, fill the trunk of your car and hit the circuit of flea markets and independent booksellers. If you want to give your books away, there are cheaper printing options. If you’re serious about publishing the book to sell it, they are the wrong path.

You’ve got the most important parts down. Professional authors don’t finish the book until it’s sold. They write a couple of chapters and an outline and they put the book out there to see if anyone will buy it. If someone bites, they sign the contract and finish the book.

What you need to do now is find a literary agent who’s willing to review your work, make suggestions to make it better and/or more marketable, and then shop it for you. That’s the professional route into publishing. Unfortunately, I have no insights or assistance to offer you in getting an agent other than cold-calling any you can find online.

asphaltgambler · 03-21-2022, 05:39 PM

MRM, THAT'S the exact specific direction I was hoping to find here! Someone that knows the routine and can advise me at least what NOT to do.

The company is called Mascot books, they are located in Herndon, VA. I was fairly sure this is just like showing up to a new car dealer asking what car should I buy. At least I have an avenue for someone who would be completely objective as to 'would this sell or not?' Because if someone is experienced in the market says it won't sell then I need to reevaluate my story.

MRM · 03-21-2022, 06:45 PM

One of my favorite authors is Pat Conroy and one of my favorite stories is how he got his first publishing contract. He was one of those people who was born to be an author and he was driven to publish. After graduating from the Citadel he taught school for a year before he was fired, and wrote "The Boo" and "The Water is Wide" and published them on his own. As far as I can tell, "The Boo" was never mass marketed. "The Water is Wide was picked up by Life Magazine and serialized (I actually once owned a copy of that issue, long gone now, sadly) and was later republished when he became established.

So he was starving, sending his transcripts to anyone who would read them, and putting all the money he could scrape together into printing costs for his self-published books when he started circulating a little novel he called "The Great Santini." He was in his apartment one day when his friend who was helping him publish called and exclaimed that Random house wanted to publish "The Great Santini." Conroy asked what terms. He was told something like $10,000 for a run of 3,500 books (my numbers are off, but they don't matter). Conroy paused for a minute and calculated in his head, responding, "I can get it printed cheaper down here in Atlanta." "No, Pat," his friend replied. "They want to pay you $10,000 to publish the books.

LWJ · 03-22-2022, 02:12 AM

Friend of mine published a kids book on local birds. She did the art and the text - so she got paid twice.

There was a modest up front payment to her at completion of the material. And, she had no say about the title, which didn’t make her happy.

Summary. They pay you.

You could also self publish this. More money to you. More risk to you also.

asphaltgambler · 03-22-2022, 04:00 AM

Now- how to find an agent experienced in the genre - that will be objective

id10t · 03-22-2022, 04:14 AM

My aunt (trained lawyer, worked as kindergarten teacher) published a kids version of the Passover Hagadah 25+ years ago.

She supplied text, etc. Whole family modeled for pictures (taken by a outside studio). She then supplied everything to publisher and they did layout, etc. and initial print run. After initial sales (first 3 years or so, taken care of by mailing lists to various synagogues around the country) she ended up having to warehouse thousands of copies at her publisher. When they burnt in a warehouse fire in 2010 she was worried about doing reprints etc. I told her to use her legal training and look up the Creative Commons licenses since she owned all the IP involved, and I think she got her publisher to provide PDF files and then she simply put them online.