Flights delayed across the US after FAA system outage (1/11/2023)

[Gooch1971]

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/faa-system-outage-us-flight-disruptions/index.html

"What we know so far:

- The Federal Aviation Administration has lifted a ground stop that it issued Wednesday morning following an outage to a system that provides pilots with notices they need before flying.

- Normal operations are resuming, but delays from the ground stop continue. The latest data from the flight-tracking site FlightAware shows there are more than 4,000 flight delays nationwide.

- You can read more about what to do if your flight has been delayed here."

[Gooch1971]

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/faa-computer-outage-flights-grounded/index.html


New York CNN
—
A Federal Aviation Administration-ordered halt to all domestic flight departures across the United States was lifted Wednesday after the system providing pilots with pre-flight safety notices was restored following an overnight outage that caused extensive disruption.

The stop order in place after the failure of its NOTAMS – or Notice to Air Missions – system was lifted by the FAA shortly before 9 a.m. Eastern Time as the agency said normal air traffic operations were resuming across the country.

It was anticipated that some airlines could continue to delay or cancel flights because of ongoing congestion caused by the incident. An airline source familiar with the situation said airlines may implement ground delay programs, which could potentially lead to further timetable issues.

Airlines for America, an association representing US airlines, earlier said the outage was “causing significant operational delays.” Major US carriers including United Airlines, Delta and American Airlines all said had grounded flights in response to the situation.

US President Joe Biden said there was no immediate information on what had caused the outage – the second US aviation crisis in a matter of weeks. He said he had been briefed on the situation and was in touch with Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg.

“I just spoke with Buttigieg,” he told reporters as he departed the White House. “They don’t know what the cause is. But I was on the phone with him the last 10 minutes. I told them to report directly to me when they find out. Aircraft can still land safely, just not take off right now.”

He continued, “They don’t know what the cause of it is. They expect in a couple of hours they’ll have a good sense of what caused it and will respond at that time.”

Asked whether it was a cyberattack, Biden said: “They don’t know. They will find out.”

Earlier, White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said in a statement that there was “no evidence of a cyberattack at this point,” but that Biden had ordered a Department of Transportation investigation.

What should I do if my flight has been canceled or delayed?
FlightAware, which tracks delays and cancellations, showed more than 4,000 flights to, from and within the United States as being delayed as of 8:50 a.m. ET, and 696 flights canceled so far.

International flights bound for the United States were continuing to take off from Amsterdam and Paris despite the situation. A Schiphol Airport spokesperson told CNN that “a workaround had been issued” and flights were still departing from Amsterdam.

No flights have been canceled from Paris’ Charles de Gaulle airport, but delays were expected, according to the airport’s press office. Frankfurt Airport also told CNN it had not been impacted.

A London Heathrow Airport spokesperson told CNN that they were “not aware of canceled flights and that flights to the US had left recently,” however there were passenger reports of significant delays.

Shabnam Amini told CNN that she and other travelers had been sitting on board Americans Airlines flight 51 to Dallas for almost three hours at Heathrow because of the FAA outage.

She said they had been informed that there were delays but were still boarded onto the aircraft.

Commercial airline pilots use NOTAMS for real-time information on flight hazards and restrictions. The FAA stipulates NOTAMS are not to be relied on as a sole source of information, and so some flights may be able to satisfy safety requirements by using other data.

Wednesday’s incident comes on the heels of another aviation crisis. A huge winter storm over the end-of-year holidays caused extensive disruption and helped trigger a Southwest Airlines meltdown that affected thousands of passengers.

– This is a developing story. It will be updated.

[GH85Carrera]

As a total outsider and non large system IT guy, it just astonishes me that the FAA, or Southwest Airlines can have old outdated computers systems. On the other hand I went to a large local company that uses the same software for inventory and accounting that they started with in the in the 1970s when they went digital and away from all paper copies.

I remember the FAA years ago had many millions invested in an all new computer system to run the operations, and they never could get it to work. One of my friends worked at the FAA, and he said the vendor was just overwhelmed and incompetent. They got the contract by low bidding and political connections. In the end, the entire "upgrade" was scrapped, and they kept using the old system as they started over.

It is scary how many large companies are running antique systems and can't figure out how to move into the modern era.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

It is scary how many large companies are running antique systems and can't figure out how to move into the modern era.

I think many can figure it out - but are reluctant to foot the bill when its not broken "right now" just like we put off wellness care since were not sick.

[Superman]

The problem is not just cost. It is also an availability bottleneck. Just about every organization needs IT, can benefit from IT, can be more efficient, effective, etc., and periodically needs to replace entire systems or do major upgrades, more frequently than you might think but.....there are just so many IT folks to go around.

[GH85Carrera]

I know some of the issues are finding software that does what the client needs.

There is no off the shelf package to do the tasks, allow access to the data to only authorized people at their access levels only.

I know it is hard, but in 2023 it should not be failure mode so often. Southwest Airlines is classic example. The recent meltdown just messed up airline travel across the country for millions of people, even ones no flying on Southwest. And Southwest is not the only airline to have total meltdowns of the computer system.

[Rikao4]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

It is scary how many large companies are running antique systems and can't figure out how to move into the modern era.

and once that's kaputt...
the baffled look among the youngster when tasked with a work around..
ie ....paper..
phone calls..
and oh the horror..
legibly write ..

Rika

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

and once that's kaputt...
the baffled look among the youngster when tasked with a work around..
ie ....paper..
phone calls..
and oh the horror..
legibly write ..

Rika

+1
Imagine going back to the early 2000's! All the tech and we have regressed to idiocracy.


IMHO newer systems are more prone to issues compared to the older ones; "If it ain't broken don't fix it".

[911_Dude]

Looks like it was the NOTAM system that went down. Ive hated that system ever since I learned to fly 40 or so years ago. Way out dated.

[Brown747]

https://fixingnotams.org/a-field-guide-to-notams-the-book/

[rfuerst911sc]

Another example of aging out technology or aging infrastructure . Not sure if this is on anyone's agenda but it sounds like it should be .

I am no expert but my biggest concern is that the " backup system " also failed . That's not good . Redundancy is there for a reason . But at the moment we are razor focused on gas stoves 🤔

[LWJ]

It reminds me of things like the NY subway system running on OS2.

Almost nobody in 2023 has even heard of OS2, I recall it as my brother was one of a handful of developers on the project.

I suspect the FAA has a similar, "State of the Art" system.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Superman

The problem is not just cost. It is also an availability bottleneck. Just about every organization needs IT, can benefit from IT, can be more efficient, effective, etc., and periodically needs to replace entire systems or do major upgrades, more frequently than you might think but.....there are just so many IT folks to go around.

I've been thinking the layoffs at tech companies have a silver lining - more tech talent available for non-tech companies who desperately need it?

[Vintage Racer]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

......it just astonishes me that the FAA, or Southwest Airlines can have old outdated computers systems........It is scary how many large companies are running antique systems and can't figure out how to move into the modern era.

I agree. Two failures in a few weeks is totally unacceptable.

I just cancelled a flight to the west coast and decided to have a driving vacation.

[fintstone]

[fireant911]

Frustrating... my wife and I arrived early to the airport for the first leg of our journey of flying to Barcelona, Spain today and were first greeted with a flight delay followed by a flight cancellation. No other flights were available; however, the folks staffing the counter suggested that we drive to Chicago (we were flying from Green Bay)... instead, we drove home disappointed...

[stevej37]

^^^ You prob did the right thing.
If you drove to ORD...the chances of leaving from there might have been less yet.

I feel for all the travelers stuck with this problem....so many things hinge on the flight time.

[stevej37]

I'm surprised a fight didn't break out with a passenger and OBJ.
A lot of po'd passengers.

[rfuerst911sc]

I was watching the news this morning and they stated Canada's system also went down. Now that is a weird coincidence and the first I had heard that . Anyone on here know if the US/FAA system is somehow shared with Canada ? Or if both systems use the same hardware/software ?

[matthewb0051]

Five bucks says that Mayor Pete will roll out an App for people to use as a bandaid for this problem. Not sure what the App will do but it will be the Dept of Trans response to this, like it is for every other thing that happens these days.

As for Odell Beckham .. what an entitled douche. IF it were any other passenger they would have been cuffed and dragged off the plane.